Brilliant ideas needed - we're stumped!

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Lazydaisy
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:03 pm
Current Ride: Suzuki Burgman 400 K7

Brilliant ideas needed - we're stumped!

Post by Lazydaisy »

Hi folks. Just got my Betsy (AN400 K7) back on the road after she was laid up for 3 years. The garage returned her after the Service and MOT saying the front wheel kept binding. Ok on the rolling road but as soon as the brakes were applied there was binding. They'd checked brakes and calipers and couldn't find anything wrong. Ride it and see how it went and if it frees up.

Well, I've done a couple of 16mile rides and each time the brakes bind. Hubby has checked calipers and they seem fine so we resorted to checking the master brake cylinder. That's fine. But we still have the problem that the wheel will run free but not once brake lever pulled! Anyone know if there is a spring or something that is not releasing?

Dealer has stripped and cleaned pistons too.


Sensible suggestions greatly appreciated. Exploded diagram of calipers would be really nice if anyone has them. Pretty p.....d at garage tbh, but I don't want to damage the disc and I want to be out there riding!!

Many thanks in advance.
Lazydaisy

Black Betsy - aka the stealth burger (Burgman 400 K7)
North Herts

"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup"

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Data
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Current Ride: 2016 Vespa GTS300ie abs asr
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Re: Brilliant ideas needed - we're stumped!

Post by Data »

It's most likely the brake master cylinder which has a return port at the bottom of the cylinder. This gets muck in it and causes the symptoms you describe. It doesn't allow the brake pressure to fully release properly causing the binding of the discs.
Probably not ugly enough for the 'Ugly Bunch'! :lol:

Been riding for 54 years & owned too many bikes to list here...

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andy(b)
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Re: Brilliant ideas needed - we're stumped!

Post by andy(b) »

I have a service manual for one if you want it? PM me for info

Dogsbody
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Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:25 pm
Current Ride: Burgman 400 Honda C125 400-4
Location: Lowton

Re: Brilliant ideas needed - we're stumped!

Post by Dogsbody »

If it was stood for three years it is likely to be corrosion in the master cylinder if the calipers are ok, the piston sticks and doesn't return properly. The brake fluid should have been changed anyway after that amount of time as it absorbs water, hence the corrosion. You may get away with stripping and cleaning as sometimes new seals are not supplied as a separate item. A dealer should not have released a bike with a potential brake fault in my opinion. Dogsbody

Lazydaisy
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:03 pm
Current Ride: Suzuki Burgman 400 K7

Re: Brilliant ideas needed - we're stumped!

Post by Lazydaisy »

Thanks for those so far. We've found some nice exploded diagrams online and have the Haynes manual. The bike was off the road because at MOT they told me I needed new front calipers because they were binding...... just didn't have the wherewithal to deal with it sooner. The calipers have been stripped and are fine at this service (same dealer) but we are of the same opinion that it's the master cylinder. We bought a kit but when it turned up the piston is different so having to contact vendor. However, piston etc seemed fine but something is stopping the return. Going to strip, replace all seals and will probably ask local garage ( not dealer) if they can blow back thru the cylinder in case of blockage.

Any more info, ideas etc will be gratefully received. Dealer said if it didn't run free we'd have to look at the cylinder but I would have been happier if they'd advised me before I went to collect to see if I was ok with that. It rides ok but I struggle to move her without the engine running as she's a big girl and I'm not!

PS I use the royal 'we' - t'other half does all the engineering bits - l just ride!
Lazydaisy

Black Betsy - aka the stealth burger (Burgman 400 K7)
North Herts

"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup"

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Stephen
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Re: Brilliant ideas needed - we're stumped!

Post by Stephen »

Some knowledgable guys on her i know ,as for me you can write what i know on a postage stamp,have you tried the http://burgmanusa.com/forums/ some clever guys there.

Steve
Honda Forza 350

Ride Safe Ride Upright
"Better to be late in this world,rather than early in the next world"

SH125Paul
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Re: Brilliant ideas needed - we're stumped!

Post by SH125Paul »

have a click about here... https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/ some good expoded diagrams... part numbers
Something like this: https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/52 ... r-model-k7
I too would suspect a cruddy master cylinder... some times the old fluid can go off and solidify - bit like a bogey! - in the transfer port holes...
if calipers have been stripped and seals / pistons checked - go for the mastercylinder plunger clean,
part number 59600-04810-000 shown as discontinued - Google search shows it as a common part / master cylinder repair kit from somewhere like m&p's and various eBay... Or Try Robinson Foundary - excelent for Suzi...
check the seal cups for splits etc.. and a bore clean. - could also be a leak / hole in the diaphragm (#8) so no vaccume forming...?
re assemble 'wet' with break fluid so the seal cups dont tear... maybe worth a soak in fluid - might rejuvinate the rubbers if the have gone dry...
still think its a bogey in the transfer holes...

victor
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Current Ride: Suzuki Burgman Exec 650 K9
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Re: Brilliant ideas needed - we're stumped!

Post by victor »

check out www, Le Dudes Burgman Centre.

Lazydaisy
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 1:03 pm
Current Ride: Suzuki Burgman 400 K7

Re: Brilliant ideas needed - we're stumped!

Post by Lazydaisy »

Thanks to all. We took the master cylinder apart, took it to dealer who blew it through - it was as clean asa whistle. So we've replaced the piston etc. Left the top seal as that was fine. Also stripped the calipers and replaced the seals. Just been for a local run and pleased to report that the front wheel spins - not as freely as we'd like but much improved and the nasty grinding noise has stopped. I even managed to roll her back into the garden by myself!
All in all a result. Well keep an eye on her and see how she goes.
Many thanks to all who suggested routes forward.

See you out there on the open road!
Lazydaisy

Black Betsy - aka the stealth burger (Burgman 400 K7)
North Herts

"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup"

RuffStuff
Posts: 27
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:12 pm

Re: Brilliant ideas needed - we're stumped!

Post by RuffStuff »

Hoses can collapse internally aswell, may be worth changing

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