Tmax DX Dead! Won't start

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Stephen
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Re: Tmax DX Dead! Won't start

Post by Stephen »

Just had a shower and another thought entered my head whilst in there,it strikes me by the fact the dealer didn’t know,the telematics was preinstalled at the factory and assuming they have the key fob.....the said fob needs to be very near to the scooter.....its no good the mechanic leaving the fob on his workbench,the fob needs to be no further than about 4 feet away,if the scooter was running and the key fob went North the scooter went south,the scooter would still run until turned off,then wouldn’t restart,just chucking ideas about :D ........Steve
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8500rpm
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Re: Tmax DX Dead! Won't start

Post by 8500rpm »

Stephen wrote:Just had a shower and another thought entered my head whilst in there,it strikes me by the fact the dealer didn’t know,the telematics was preinstalled at the factory and assuming they have the key fob.....the said fob needs to be very near to the scooter.....its no good the mechanic leaving the fob on his workbench,the fob needs to be no further than about 4 feet away,if the scooter was running and the key fob went North the scooter went south,the scooter would still run until turned off,then wouldn’t restart,just chucking ideas about :D ........Steve
Yeah, they have admited now that this is the first Tmax with the telematics box they have touched. They have NO experience of the telematics box or how it works with Vodafone. So I'm afraid there are endless possibilities of errors.

I've been in contact with Vodafone UK, they directed me to some 3rd party that is responsible for this service in Sweden. Vodafone Telematics UK is only responsible for UK & Malta (!) bikes.

So will call this 3rd party on Monday.
Of course they won't solve anything, but maybe they can contact Yamaha and see they see no fault codes.

Unfortunaly I guess/think it's time to change the whole telematics box on the scooter.

Have to say, still, I don't get why I need to contact the Telematics operator. If the radio stops working on a Ford car, the customer don't contact Sony/Panasonic, but contact Ford and say the radio is not working. If the Navi doesn't work on a BMW, you don't contact 'Here' (map provider for BMW) but contact BMW.

I wouldn't get the revved up over this (of course it sucks to be without my scooter) but I can't believe that I'm in the middle of a blame game. Yamaha blaming Vodafone... it's amazing, I thought that only happened for 'cr*p ch**p products'.

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Re: Tmax DX Dead! Won't start

Post by MrGrumpy »

8500rpm wrote: Have to say, still, I don't get why I need to contact the Telematics operator. If the radio stops working on a Ford car, the customer don't contact Sony/Panasonic, but contact Ford and say the radio is not working. If the Navi doesn't work on a BMW, you don't contact 'Here' (map provider for BMW) but contact BMW.

I wouldn't get the revved up over this (of course it sucks to be without my scooter) but I can't believe that I'm in the middle of a blame game. Yamaha blaming Vodafone... it's amazing, I thought that only happened for 'cr*p ch**p products'.
I guess its the perils of being a pioneer....I guess when radio were first fitted to cars, there was endless discussion about who's responsibility they were when they went wrong (and they would have been optional accessories in those days), ditto sat navs. But it seriously bad that you have been left without your scooter - I would have thought someone somewhere could supply a work around so that it starts, even if there was no smartphone capability, until a proper fix could be sorted.

8500rpm
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Re: Tmax DX Dead! Won't start

Post by 8500rpm »

8500rpm wrote:
Stephen wrote:Just had a shower and another thought entered my head whilst in there,it strikes me by the fact the dealer didn’t know,the telematics was preinstalled at the factory and assuming they have the key fob.....the said fob needs to be very near to the scooter.....its no good the mechanic leaving the fob on his workbench,the fob needs to be no further than about 4 feet away,if the scooter was running and the key fob went North the scooter went south,the scooter would still run until turned off,then wouldn’t restart,just chucking ideas about :D ........Steve
Yeah, they have admited now that this is the first Tmax with the telematics box they have touched. They have NO experience of the telematics box or how it works with Vodafone. So I'm afraid there are endless possibilities of errors.

I've been in contact with Vodafone UK, they directed me to some 3rd party that is responsible for this service in Sweden. Vodafone Telematics UK is only responsible for UK & Malta (!) bikes.

So will call this 3rd party on Monday.
Of course they won't solve anything, but maybe they can contact Yamaha and see they see no fault codes.

Unfortunaly I guess/think it's time to change the whole telematics box on the scooter.

Have to say, still, I don't get why I need to contact the Telematics operator. If the radio stops working on a Ford car, the customer don't contact Sony/Panasonic, but contact Ford and say the radio is not working. If the Navi doesn't work on a BMW, you don't contact 'Here' (map provider for BMW) but contact BMW.

I wouldn't get the revved up over this (of course it sucks to be without my scooter) but I can't believe that I'm in the middle of a blame game. Yamaha blaming Vodafone... it's amazing, I thought that only happened for 'cr*p ch**p products'.
Another thing, as from the car world, I cannot think of a situation where I have ever been afraid that the car manufacturer would not take responsibility. I have without scare used BMW and Volvos Apps, never thought that I might end up in trouble.

IF, it's so, that Yamaha really can blame Vodafone and direct the customer to them instead, shouldn't dare be a BIG 'Warning!' on the App when you connect it the first time, 'Warning, Yamaha takes no responsilbility' and shouldn't it be Vodafone branded and just a small 'work with Yamaha products' on the App, so I as the customer understand that it's not part of the Yamaha product, but an add-on.

I hope my Apple Iphone camera doesn't stop working tonight, I wouldn't want to call Sony and ask about the camera sensor ;)

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Stephen
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Re: Tmax DX Dead! Won't start

Post by Stephen »

Met a few fellow bikers today for breakfast,this subject came up in conversation,”The My tmax connect”telematics box or whatever its called,is mainly a tracker,is that correct? From the app on your mobile device,you can track you routes,you have a transport & garage mode,its put into this mode in case battery needs to be disconnected for any servicing ect,you can make the horn and hazards work when away from the scooter,but you can not disable the scooter via the app,for example you cant turn the engine off with app ect ect,so i cant really see it being an app problem.......but i would show willing and sit at the dealers while THEY(always keep the ball in their court,its the responsibility of the dealer & Yamaha) speak to vodaphone who will of course want your permission.At a guess,I wouldn’t mind betting the dealer hasn’t even contacted Yamaha yet,they may be to embarrassed to admit to them that they aint got a clue about the workings of the new Tmax DX

I am certainly no expert....just a few thoughts

Steve
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Re: Tmax DX Dead! Won't start

Post by abitmad »

The situation is actually very clear. The dealer is completely liable for this, at least under British consumer law. That's all there is to it and you must make this clear to them. As others have said, it's got to the stage where you should set a written deadline stating that if they are unable to fix the bike satisfactorily they must replace it with a new one or refund the purchase price, failing which you will take this to court. From what you've said, you should have good evidence against the dealer for incompetence, lengthy delays, trying to escape liability etc.

That's how it works in the UK. I linked earlier to the Which website which gives guidance on this but I don't know how it works in Sweden.

As you yourself and several here suggest, do not get into any dispute or blame between Yam and Vod. Whether the responsibility lies with Yamaha, Vodafone, or an incompetent dealer, is not your concern at all. Legally in the UK, the seller is liable.

But there is an onus upon you to act reasonably in this. If all the dealer is asking you to do is simply be present whilst they contact Vod, because they think this may resolve the issue but perhaps passwords etc. are required, then I think you should do that. Why not, if it may help resolve the problem? I can't see that your being there so that contact can be established between the dealer and Vod permits the dealer to abdicate their complete responsibility for this and it does not mean that you are entering into any Yam/Vod/dealer blame apportionment. If that doesn't work, you haven't lost anything so then proceed as above.

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Re: Tmax DX Dead! Won't start

Post by 8500rpm »

abitmad wrote:The situation is actually very clear. The dealer is completely liable for this, at least under British consumer law. That's all there is to it and you must make this clear to them. As others have said, it's got to the stage where you should set a written deadline stating that if they are unable to fix the bike satisfactorily they must replace it with a new one or refund the purchase price, failing which you will take this to court. From what you've said, you should have good evidence against the dealer for incompetence, lengthy delays, trying to escape liability etc.

That's how it works in the UK. I linked earlier to the Which website which gives guidance on this but I don't know how it works in Sweden.

As you yourself and several here suggest, do not get into any dispute or blame between Yam and Vod. Whether the responsibility lies with Yamaha, Vodafone, or an incompetent dealer, is not your concern at all. Legally in the UK, the seller is liable.

But there is an onus upon you to act reasonably in this. If all the dealer is asking you to do is simply be present whilst they contact Vod, because they think this may resolve the issue but perhaps passwords etc. are required, then I think you should do that. Why not, if it may help resolve the problem? I can't see that your being there so that contact can be established between the dealer and Vod permits the dealer to abdicate their complete responsibility for this and it does not mean that you are entering into any Yam/Vod/dealer blame apportionment. If that doesn't work, you haven't lost anything so then proceed as above.
Thanks abitmad.... I agree with you, and I try to exactly like you say 'act reasonably in this', so I will go to the dealer on Tuesday, and I will call Vodafones 3rd party service provider here in Sweden tomorrow. I will do what I can the following 2-3days, and then we'll see what the dealer says by the end of Wednesday.

It's not a catastrophe, I'm happy if I can get the scooter by the end of June, even if I was without it for a whole month then, I love it that much :) ...I just have this bad gutfeeling (which can be wrong) that this can turn into this long blame-game that it already has started. I will however be very helpful the next few days.

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Re: Tmax DX Dead! Won't start

Post by SH125Paul »

https://www.yamaha-motor.eu/uk/products ... nnect.aspx

Engine Lock
This function can be used if you need to remotely inhibit the vehicle engine. If the vehicle is stationary, it cannot be started. If it is moving, it will prevent it from being restarted after the ignition has been switched off.


Is it this function that may of got set... Turn it off and on again? (or ON and OFF again)
Can't the app just be disabled / re-registerd

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Re: Tmax DX Dead! Won't start

Post by abitmad »

The remote engine disable function does not currently exist on the app, despite Yam's claim in their promotion that it does. At least not on my phone and not on another DX owner I know. Maybe they'll introduce it in future but it aint there now.

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Re: Tmax DX Dead! Won't start

Post by poldark »

abitmad wrote:The remote engine disable function does not currently exist on the app, despite Yam's claim in their promotion that it does. At least not on my phone and not on another DX owner I know. Maybe they'll introduce it in future but it aint there now.
Maybe they've introduced it without realising it, perhaps a spurious App update, or a test gone wrong. But I guess it would effect many bikes??
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