Just a quickie. Had some data back from the firm I was working for concerning the engine testing and the oil. Thought you may be interested. I'm no longer officially working for them, my part in the project is completed. I'm not breaking any rules by telling anyone this either. After all the big testing stuff is done and the engine specs have been checked, the engines are run almost to destruction. That's pretty normal as a final check to make sure nothing unexpected arises from accelerated wear patterns achieved in tests like the one I describe here. The two engines chosen for this were both blueprinted prior to testing (by me) and benched at an average 90% throttle for 2 months 24/7 with two oil changes but no other stops other than engine benching dyno maintenance lasting usually no more than an hour and to check the inertia system cooling. Computers control and monitor the engine tests and vitals, and power outputs etc. Engine takes oil when needed from a clever little device hooked into the engine if the level approaches minimum. Engine coolant the same. One engine runs dino, the other fully syn. It's calculated the engines have each run the equivalent of 100,000 miles over the two months. The engines covered just over 33k miles per session before oil was changed along with a filter. Much further than normal. For this engine type the oil changes will happen at 20k normally when in service. It's note worthy no dino oil should ever go this far in an on road vehicle as it is simply not designed to do that. It is being used in these tests as a control oil only to accelerate wear. Whatever happens, happens!
Apart from the oil used at service time when it was changed, the engine running dino oil used a further 24litres of oil to cover the 100,000 miles. Oil drained and tested from this engine showed significant engine particulate matter including metal from all bearing surfaces from within the engine. The oil was exhausted and not capable of proper lubrication, as would be expected at the end of each session running dino oil. Engine power was significantly down on designed output.That was the result expected and a successful conclusion to this test. Inspite of this the engine remained intact but had reached it's end of life, again as expected for this test.
The identical engine using fully syn, apart from the oil used for oil changes at the prescribed times, used just 4.6 litres of extra oil to cover the 100,000 miles. Oil tests showed NO significant engine particulate matter relating to metal from any bearing surfaces. Engine output was well within performance parameters as expected. The engine should be capable of another 100,000 miles easily. This was the expected result for this engine and a successful result.
Oil Change
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Data
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Re: Oil Change
Probably not ugly enough for the 'Ugly Bunch'! 
Been riding for 54 years & owned too many bikes to list here...
Been riding for 54 years & owned too many bikes to list here...
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pikey
Re: Oil Change
Thats great if your going to run a scoot to 100 K at 90% throttle doesnt surprise me dino oil broke down under that sort of test I wonder what result would be at 50% throttle and normal oil change intervals .My argument for running expensive oil is all you are doing is making sure engine lasts for the next owner .It is comparing top and bottom types of oil as well where originally we were talking was semi v fully synth.If you can get fully for same money then fine but a lot of people get paranoid about oil thinking if they dont use top spec its going to wear out before next oil change .As your test showed they both lasted the test even tho dino one was down on power
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- Current Ride: Royal Enfield 350 Meteor
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Re: Oil Change
Hi Pikey,
Yep, to be clear it was an engine test and not an oil test. The oil has to be tested to see how the engines are standing up. In our test, because of dino oil being used in one engine that engine was finished, not just down on power, but no longer serviceable. It just managed to keep going with worn out rings and bottom end. I thought I'd mention it as it just shows the stark contrast between the two oil types. In the engine with F/S oil the engine was completely normal and would go for another 100,000+ miles inspite of the abuse handed out to it. It endured the same abuse as the dino oiled engine but suffered none of the ill effects. So, the dino was the control oil used. We know all there is to know about how dino oil performs, or doesn't...and that's why it's used. To accelerate engine wear to show us how well the engine stands up. Dino oil's poor performance doesn't mean you can't use it in your road bike if you want and it will likely do an adequate job in undemanding situations.
But, we can project data from the test results that tell us that the engine with fully syn oil in it will easily cover 250k-300k+ miles without any problems under normal use. We have tested these engines at lower settings on dino oil in earlier component testing with normal oil change intervals and it wears the engines much faster than F/S oil. Again, dino is used to identify weak component design and materials in normal use. We know dino oil is pretty well worn out at normal oil change intervals too. It always has more metal particulate matter in it from engine bearing surfaces, as well as carbon which dirties the oil faster and causes more wear in itself. Dino cooks more easily. Given these engine tests are all hot tests when the least amount of wear takes place, for the normal guy in the street thats a worry if he is using dino and if he has a good bike and values his engine! Not forgetting most engine wear happens in the first few minutes of riding from cold and dino aint good at stopping that either.
I do think the engine test shows how good fully syn oil is these days and it's even well above semi syn oil performance too. Semi syn oil is largely falling by the way side in the car world and even now in the bike world with more and more bikes using F/S. The oil companies work really hard to provide good oils to do specific or non specific jobs and they've come on in leaps and bounds in the last 10 years. The old saying that "oil is oil" just isn't true anymore! You can however, use F/S in virtually any bike and the engine will last and last. IF you are the sort of person that doesn't keep your bikes, then use another oil, but why? Fully syn is fairly cheap with companys like Smith & Allan selling it cheaper than semi syn quite often. So why not use it and benefit from better performance and fuel economy, and the reduced risk of mechanical failure even if you don't intend to directly benefit from longer engine life because you sell the bike on. It does after all reduce engine friction liberating more power too. In another post somewhere, I quoted how much extra power our engine provided on fully syn, and it was worthwhile using it. You can also safely extend oil service intervals by quite some way in many circumstances as long as you don't just do very short trips all the time. Again saving some down time and money. But each individual must make there own choice based upon their own needs.
Yep, to be clear it was an engine test and not an oil test. The oil has to be tested to see how the engines are standing up. In our test, because of dino oil being used in one engine that engine was finished, not just down on power, but no longer serviceable. It just managed to keep going with worn out rings and bottom end. I thought I'd mention it as it just shows the stark contrast between the two oil types. In the engine with F/S oil the engine was completely normal and would go for another 100,000+ miles inspite of the abuse handed out to it. It endured the same abuse as the dino oiled engine but suffered none of the ill effects. So, the dino was the control oil used. We know all there is to know about how dino oil performs, or doesn't...and that's why it's used. To accelerate engine wear to show us how well the engine stands up. Dino oil's poor performance doesn't mean you can't use it in your road bike if you want and it will likely do an adequate job in undemanding situations.
But, we can project data from the test results that tell us that the engine with fully syn oil in it will easily cover 250k-300k+ miles without any problems under normal use. We have tested these engines at lower settings on dino oil in earlier component testing with normal oil change intervals and it wears the engines much faster than F/S oil. Again, dino is used to identify weak component design and materials in normal use. We know dino oil is pretty well worn out at normal oil change intervals too. It always has more metal particulate matter in it from engine bearing surfaces, as well as carbon which dirties the oil faster and causes more wear in itself. Dino cooks more easily. Given these engine tests are all hot tests when the least amount of wear takes place, for the normal guy in the street thats a worry if he is using dino and if he has a good bike and values his engine! Not forgetting most engine wear happens in the first few minutes of riding from cold and dino aint good at stopping that either.
I do think the engine test shows how good fully syn oil is these days and it's even well above semi syn oil performance too. Semi syn oil is largely falling by the way side in the car world and even now in the bike world with more and more bikes using F/S. The oil companies work really hard to provide good oils to do specific or non specific jobs and they've come on in leaps and bounds in the last 10 years. The old saying that "oil is oil" just isn't true anymore! You can however, use F/S in virtually any bike and the engine will last and last. IF you are the sort of person that doesn't keep your bikes, then use another oil, but why? Fully syn is fairly cheap with companys like Smith & Allan selling it cheaper than semi syn quite often. So why not use it and benefit from better performance and fuel economy, and the reduced risk of mechanical failure even if you don't intend to directly benefit from longer engine life because you sell the bike on. It does after all reduce engine friction liberating more power too. In another post somewhere, I quoted how much extra power our engine provided on fully syn, and it was worthwhile using it. You can also safely extend oil service intervals by quite some way in many circumstances as long as you don't just do very short trips all the time. Again saving some down time and money. But each individual must make there own choice based upon their own needs.
Probably not ugly enough for the 'Ugly Bunch'!
Been riding for 54 years & owned too many bikes to list here...
Been riding for 54 years & owned too many bikes to list here...
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pikey
Re: Oil Change
Wilkinsons semi synth is half the price of fully synth LOL .Ill save rest of me dino for my camper for when I do up to sell it thats a 1988 with 70's designed push rod engine so will be happy with that LOL .