Xmax 300 or Forza 300

[MrGrumpy]

It can be a question of horses for courses...the swinging engine scoots seem to work OK in town, but if you venture onto bumpy roads in the country (//)they are hopeless.

Oh come on Mr.grumpy, how are our roads worse than the cobbled streets of Italian cities ? If swing engine scooters could not cope with bumps Vespa & Lambretta would have ceased manufacture & disappeared into oblivion long ago.
I suspect it's more to do with people having greater expectations than the vehicle can deliver, they're not motorbikes yet somehow some people expect them to be on par in every level

Cobbled streets are a very different proposition to the bumps and lumps of an typically badly maintained UK back road...and not even some big scoots can handle cobbles! My baby Burger was relatively softly sprung, so might have handled cobbles OK, but that probably made it unrideable in the countryside!
Yes, its a matter of expectation - but we aren't talking low powered Vespas or Lambrettas which are ideal for cities here. We are now talking about expensive mid capacity scoots with enough power to blast down M-ways and do long journeys on. And these 300-400cc scoots cost as much as more powerful motorbikes. So I do expect - or at least want - sufficient road manners to make them useful on a wide variety of roads, and out of town as well as in town.

[StephenC]

The rear suspension on the Xmax is a puzzle. Neither my Satelis nor the J300 felt so poor at the rear and I would have assumed Yamaha knew more about what they were doing in this regard than Peugeot or Kawasaki/Kymco.

[Bern]

It can be a question of horses for courses...the swinging engine scoots seem to work OK in town, but if you venture onto bumpy roads in the country (//)they are hopeless.

Oh come on Mr.grumpy, how are our roads worse than the cobbled streets of Italian cities ? If swing engine scooters could not cope with bumps Vespa & Lambretta would have ceased manufacture & disappeared into oblivion long ago.
I suspect it's more to do with people having greater expectations than the vehicle can deliver, they're not motorbikes yet somehow some people expect them to be on par in every level

Cobbled streets are a very different proposition to the bumps and lumps of an typically badly maintained UK back road...and not even some big scoots can handle cobbles! My baby Burger was relatively softly sprung, so might have handled cobbles OK, but that probably made it unrideable in the countryside!
Yes, its a matter of expectation - but we aren't talking low powered Vespas or Lambrettas which are ideal for cities here. We are now talking about expensive mid capacity scoots with enough power to blast down M-ways and do long journeys on. And these 300-400cc scoots cost as much as more powerful motorbikes. So I do expect - or at least want - sufficient road manners to make them useful on a wide variety of roads, and out of town as well as in town.

Would you call a Vespa 300GTS?V a low powered scooter, incapable of motorway speeds bud ? The effect potholes have on two wheeled transport is affected far more by the outside diameter of the tyre/s that it is by the method of rear suspension.

[orange1290]

we have much worse roads in Malta. Distances are less but they really do have the worst roads in Europe. My XMAX 300 does a great job but does have limitations on these terrible roads. However, my friend on his Kawasaki Zephyr has just as many issues. XMAX300 is a top scooter and very well designed combined with the most fuel efficient 300cc engine out there - bluecore. Consistently getting 100mpg in urban areas going up to 110mpg out of town. The new Forza 300 is very nice but uses a (relatively) old engine, giving around 80mpg which is a huge difference considering it came out a year later than the xmax300.

[StephenC]

... The new Forza 300 is very nice but uses a (relatively) old engine, giving around 80mpg which is a huge difference considering it came out a year later than the xmax300.

You're still new to the Muppets, that is very clear: trying to get back to the subject of a thread is not what we do! Digression is a vital element in the character set of a good Muppet.

BTW, You're right about the Bluecore engine, it's really outstanding. Damn. You've got me back on-topic now ... grrr.

[MrGrumpy]

Would you call a Vespa 300GTS?V a low powered scooter, incapable of motorway speeds bud ? The effect potholes have on two wheeled transport is affected far more by the outside diameter of the tyre/s that it is by the method of rear suspension.

Well, whilst the Italians used to use little Vespas to tear round the streets, the modern Italian uses Vespa 300s to whizz down the Autostrada from the suburbs and then fight there way through the streets. This is what most modern mid-sized Maxis are used for - it was a job that the Bev was great at - doing silly speeds on dual carriageways and then compact round the streets. However, I still feel that most of this breed aren't really that comfortable out of town.
As for what designs of suspension work best with potholes, I have no idea, but I can't imagine having an engine bouncing around on the rear wheel is going to be a great idea when the road gets bumpy and the engine gets weighty, and my personal experience of big wheel scoots is that any gains in comfort are pretty minimal!

[Bern]

As for what designs of suspension work best with potholes, I have no idea, but I can't imagine having an engine bouncing around on the rear wheel is going to be a great idea

From that can I take it that you haven't actually ridden a swing engine scooter bud ?

[bustupbiker]

... The new Forza 300 is very nice but uses a (relatively) old engine, giving around 80mpg which is a huge difference considering it came out a year later than the xmax300.

You're still new to the Muppets, that is very clear: trying to get back to the subject of a thread is not what we do! Digression is a vital element in the character set of a good Muppet.

BTW, You're right about the Bluecore engine, it's really outstanding. Damn. You've got me back on-topic now ... grrr.

[Scootypuff snr]

we have much worse roads in Malta. Distances are less but they really do have the worst roads in Europe.

roads you call them, sheets of glass is a better description, I had to buy new shoes just to stop me going arse over tit walking out for a beer so on tyre rubber we was damned

Great break cheers again Terry

and yes off topic is a must herein

[XP500FUN]

I`ve ridden a few engine swinginging scoots and they are dreadful in the sticks, simple as that. Jolts beyond belief sometimes.

Well they are what they are, and thats very very poor at the back.

A T max beats the lot, a Silverwing is better but not as good as it could of been.

Yes Yamaha sell the X max, but maybe don`t ride them ?

Someone needs to say, hang on lets sort this out. £5k and upwards they should be far far better.

If Honda had put a proper swinging arm and an adjustable mono shock on the Forza, the 2018 Forza would of been a show stealer and a huge step forward in scootering, I`m sure that would of been followed by other manufacturers and very much appreciated by riders.

BMW are going backwards with thier 400 sadly.

Best Mark.