Rebuild or not to rebuild engine burgman 400

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Rocketman122
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Rebuild or not to rebuild engine burgman 400

Post by Rocketman122 »

Wanted to get peoples opinions.

S-bag garage i brought my b400 to because of pickup issue. Ckps. Crankshaft position sensor. Supposedly he replaced it. After 3.weeks engine dies on the highway. Sends me pictures of a ripped belt and says one valve was bent. I call bs. The belt is new. Was replaced not more than 2 months back. No sound of belt ripping. It just simply died. Doesnt have any marking of oem belt either.

Hes getting an invitation to coirt. I have a call with him when he did the work on rhe ckps. Guy is a liar. Doesnt call before for me to authorize paynent. One day says the bike is fine come pick it up. I come and theres a huge bill out of the blue

Leave that aside. Let rhe judge decide. Guy has no credebility. I have all info

Back to the dead burgman 2010 jn nice condition
Thibgs that id like to replace
-piston rings
-get a complete (used exc condition ) cylinder head with camshafts
-piston block seems great. Will not bore it out as there is a special nikisil coating which helps it be durable. Unless i can find one in mint low miles thats at spec
-trying to find a throttle body with stva unit its this part that turns one of the air valves and adjusts as you give more throttle. I get an error code c28. Known flaw with this bike. The bike has many actually. Bad electrical flaws on it.
-not doing the crank bearings. Will hope that it holds the stress. Wont ridr it hard to give it a few thousand miles to smooth out.
-front variator pulleys are not flat and have belt grooves worn in
-new belt. I have motoritec flying rollers. Like dr pulley but they have an extra lip to stop them from flipping over
-some new carbon fiber vinyl. Seat has cracks and stands out like a sore thumb


Any folks who tinker with their own bikes can tell me what they think?
Shouldn't cost too much. And hopefully will have a nice burg for a few More years.
Im not doing the work. Will bring parts to mechanic. Though havent found someone yet.
Ill have check cylinder block/head to see if its within tolerance

At the moment im riding a sym hd200 that i bought to get around. Ive been looking for a maxsym 600 for a while now. No good offerings (i dont live in uk) was looking for a covid price

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Data
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Re: Rebuild or not to rebuild engine burgman 400

Post by Data »

Hi Rocketman, sorry to hear of your woes. Where in the world are you situated?

Ok so firstly the belt. If you put a new belt onto worn pulleys (sheaves) that are ridged, the belt can shred quite early on. Although I suspect it would last longer than 3 weeks. Was the belt fitted properly? That's the question that comes to mind.

The engine. How many miles has the bike got on the engine? The Burgman 400 engine is one of the strongest out there and is free from virtually any issues. It is capable of easily exceeding 100,000 miles (using proper motorcycle oil, not car oil) and I have serviced several with over 115,000 miles on the clock, all original apart from normal consumable items (variators and their sheaves are a consumable). People go on about the clutches vibrating and shuddering, but that's only because they don't maintain it correctly and/or don't use the correct moving off technique so lots of dust gets generated. Electrical issues are virtually nil but on older models the STVA can throw a wobbly with high miles. Don't pay too much attention to Burgmanusa forums (aside from my posts...lol...I'm Quantum Mechanic) as you get a completely false impression of some of the things that can go wrong on these bikes. Too many folks on that forum fiddle with their bikes, mess things up and complain. Several years ago I did several strip downs with photos and posted several 'how to' threads. I think some of the threads and photos are now gone for some reason.

The engine is easy to work on and is a gem. You need special tools for some things. Unless you are a skilled mechanic I would not be making judgements about what to replace in your engine. Leave it to the technician you choose to do the work. It's the best way to avoid over spending on your bike. You may end up replacing stuff that doesn't need replacing. With Nikasil coated cylinder bores you must be careful about when to replace the piston rings. It's something you don't want to do unless it's absolutely necessary. You don't want to damage the nikasil which can happen as a necessity when new rings are fitted. Your technician will explain this too you. So don't go ordering stuff until you have a full and complete picture of what needs to be replaced. Well that's my advice anyway. Good luck with the court case.
Probably not ugly enough for the 'Ugly Bunch'! :lol:

Been riding for 54 years & owned too many bikes to list here...

XP500FUN
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Re: Rebuild or not to rebuild engine burgman 400

Post by XP500FUN »

Sorry for the bad luck, can you find a local handy home handy chap to look at it for you/help you.

But obviously keep away from that garage.

Maybe someone can work out and see what has been done or not etc.

I try to do all I can, where I can, because if things like you`ve suffered. Sorry again.

I once took an RD400 to a place supposed to rebuild engines etc, did a right poor hjob and it blew shortly after although being nursed and looked after running in.

They just got very angry and funny when I went back and politely asked for help etc.

When we looked in it was obvious they had done it very very badly, hence the sieze etc.

I once had a bill for £500 from a tin pot garage to sort a yamaha 550 4 stroke for me ( about (1990 ) they did`nt sort it at all but still wanted £500 !!! I could not afford, plus it was still not running. and then they took the bike off off me for £150 ( as a non runner !!! ) off the bill. So I paid £350 and left with no bike too. Now much older I would`nt stand for it.

Anyway hope you get sorted ok.

I know its easy to say but try to relax and not let it bring you down or worry etc, it happens sometimes in life.

There will be better times and experiences in future.

Rocketman122
Posts: 307
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Re: Rebuild or not to rebuild engine burgman 400

Post by Rocketman122 »

Pulleys were not bad just needed to be replaced. Its bs though. The inside when i got it back was spotless inside. No karkings at all from strands anywhere. Not even light marks on the surface rusted contra spring. Nothing on the inisde. No noises of whiring or anything catching. For instance youll feel a noticeble discrepancy in speed as it catches and rips itself. A little wine. Some light scratch marks and even some belt. Rubber marks here and there. There is nothing. The scoot just decelerated like you turned the key off. Quietly. The guy has no credebility. We will meet in court.

Im in rhe middle east

Btw the valve does not look like it even matches. Imo he never replaced the pickup coil too. Why? Becaude around the edge of the frame there is cacked old oil. The kind thats mixed with dirt that been there for a ling time. No way someone wouldn't rub rhe edge clean of rhe housing before installing gasket and then cover. When ill bring it to mechanic ill ask him to open it up and give me his assessment if it was done.

No way that a belt and valve are things that happened exactly together. One would not affect the other that theyd fail togwther

When i file the court papers i will onky ask him to pay part of it. I will not be greedy but it will be a small amount that he might not show up in court for it and just accept judges decision in my favor and just pay the small fee. Or i may bargain with him down the line for him to buy me some parts at his discount. Meaning if i ask him buy me a front cown for rhe court fees you owe me, he can do it and buy from. The importer at a discount. Any which way i can to get money from him

When i brought the scooter i told him face to facr tgat if he ever has to drain the oil dont put anything but synthetic and i will bring him the oil and a new drain plug as well. He didnt listen. I dont know what oil he put in but he then put my old bolt back and there was light stripping of the threads

Bike has 70000km on it
Has been sitting outside now for 5 months(pandemic is th reason)
I used 10w-50 liqui moly (german) 100‰ synthetic motorcycle oil jaso ma2

Never had an issue with the clutch kicking. Always scuffed rhe bell and lightly sanded the pads from glazing. Then alcohol wiped it all. Bell has 5 small holes at rhe inner edge to help remove belt dust. No kicking or juddering at all

They reworked busa. A lot of files missing. They had lost some things there was posted by main mod Dave J. Good guy

I have to be completely honest. There are not many competent mechanics who really know tech stuff.
Buying a new piston cyclinder is expensive. Physcially it looks good. But im wondering about tolerance and if i can get a bit more from the whole engine. Im also worried regarding rebuilding upper and then crankshaft will have added stress and then give up and another disassembly will be needed

You cant rebore and use a sleeve in the piston cyclinder im guessing. It comes as is. I was thinking to get a new piston and rings and take a chance. If it hold hallelujah. If not then a new piston cyclinder is needed. Not an expensive repair by a mechanic

My thinking is there may be wear and a lrger tolerance the rings may take rhe slack. Also it seemed to burn oil. I have no desire to buy a PC (pisfon cylinder) right now. Unless i find from low mile donor/part.

Cyclinder head:
I dont want to do a rebuild. Id rather get a whole head eith valves camshafts just removed from a donor scooter.

He said one of rhe valves is bad/bent. The idi@t took apart all the parts in rhe head and didnt mark where rhey go back. And to grind out the hole and fit the new valve in just seems like a noncompkete job. I like parts that havent been taken apart because over time they seat properly. And i heard you cant grind rhe valve hole properly to fit a new valve. Id rather get a whole head from a used/donor scooter
. Too much chance to take.
Ill find a head with low miles.
Is it necessary to grind off the bottom for flatness/fit to piston cylinder or is it good to go with just a new gasket?

Chain/tensioners necessary to replace? Isnt that basically a complete teardown and best already to do the crnkshaft (bearings)... Am i right?

If im going to do it i don't wabt to complete half asz it. Ill Put "enough" in it to get 30000km if i can

Stva unit on mine makes grinding noises and inside are tiny plasfic gears which imo just seem to be failure from wear. Not possible to buy that specific part. They sell the whole throttle body at $550. I ran with the throttle plate open and c28 code on my dash. Not good or optimal. For performance but not much options. Healtech usa have an stva eliminator but not for rhe b400. I asked them

What else am i missing?

Thabk you for all your imput insight and experience very much appreciated

Im sorry ypu went though the hassle with your scooter. I have very little faith in my mechanics here not trying to swindle me somehow but if i bring them oem parts they will give me 3 months/3000km warranty on the engine

Ill have to check side to side tolerance/rocking on piston arm to see if its mot too loose cheers

Red Dog
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Re: Rebuild or not to rebuild engine burgman 400

Post by Red Dog »

Hi. I was interested in your Stva comment.

My Stva went wonky so I removed the throttle plate. Now the F1 light comes on occasionally as it did before I removed the plate.

That must be a couple of years ago and I can't detect any difference in performance at all.

This has always been a mystery to me but not worrying about it seems like the best solution.

Sorry to hijack your thread. Good luck with everything.

Rocketman122
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Re: Rebuild or not to rebuild engine burgman 400

Post by Rocketman122 »

it will sound more throaty and rough on takeoff as it shouldnt be that open
poorer mpg too
the stva unit is afail in design
cant be bought to replace either
you need the whole throttle body to buy $550

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Re: Rebuild or not to rebuild engine burgman 400

Post by Data »

If your engine has only 70,000km's on the clock, that's nothing. The motor, if it's been looked after, is capable of 3 times that mileage without issue. The crank and bearings on the bottom end will be fine. You can check for wear by holding the conrod and testing for movement up and down on the big end. You probably know that. If there is movement then test the mains by applying up and down pressure on the crankshaft ends. You can measure the amount of movement, if any, using a dial gauge which can be hired or bought quite cheaply. At least here in the UK.

It's always a risky business buying a used alloy cylinder head. Often I've found they are warped because the bike has overheated. So checking for this before fitting is crucial. It's possible to re-cut a valve seat on most cylinder heads if there's enough meat and or the valve seat inserts are not too damaged. You may find it just needs the valve seats honing with coarse valve grinding paste then lapping with finer paste and that will do it. None of the advice we give is really going to help much though as we cannot see the motor to make proper judgements.

I do agree that some of the things the technician has told you seem a bit odd.
Probably not ugly enough for the 'Ugly Bunch'! :lol:

Been riding for 54 years & owned too many bikes to list here...

Rocketman122
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Re: Rebuild or not to rebuild engine burgman 400

Post by Rocketman122 »

Data youre a real asset to the forum

Dont want to take any chance to rebuild the cyclinder heads(valve seat recutting) id rather buy a used one that's all assembled and ready to be put in. Ill have the mechanic look it over and see if its good otherwise ill return it

Again ill be honest... I do not think the mechanics here in middle east are so technically competent. I think they have a certain level and that's pretty much it. Putting together is fine but really knowing the ins and out abd a fine hand is no where to be found her. Id compare it to my dad who used to rebuild engines with precision vs the garage mechnic who doesn't know about precision and technical knowledge. One who uses a torque wrench for accuracy on assembly and the other who uses his air gun to get thibgs done. Exactly that mindset.


For 3 months + im trying to find a decent condition maxsym 600.then sell my sym hd200 for peanuts. Then buy parts to rebuild the b400 so ill have 2 scooters. Why?
Little public transportation near my home. Have had a nightmare for months getting to work when the burg died. Im not taking a chance. I want a backup.

Im hoping to have some good news about a used maxsym 600 in the near future.

I do not want to buy another b400. Ill update what ill find

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Re: Rebuild or not to rebuild engine burgman 400

Post by Data »

Good luck Rocketman122. Keep us all informed as to how you get on if you will. Thanks for posting.
Probably not ugly enough for the 'Ugly Bunch'! :lol:

Been riding for 54 years & owned too many bikes to list here...

Rocketman122
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Re: Rebuild or not to rebuild engine burgman 400

Post by Rocketman122 »

Yes an update and outcome is good to post for future for database if someone does a search

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