Best choice

[2wheelover51]

And I see they do a "proper" Haynes workshop manual for the Burger.

[Data]

2wheelover51, on the face of it I'd go for the Burgman 400. If doing so go for the 2012 onwards bikes to be sure you get one with all the foibles fixed. I had the 2012 executive model which came with heated grips, passenger backrest etc. Had it 5 years, used in all weathers and it was perfect. Only issue was a duff rectifier replaced under warranty, and the frame under all that plastic rusted mightily! A common issue that remains well hidden to most owner who don't do their own maintenance. I did get on top of the rust quite quickly. The thing that amazed me was how quickly the frames rust. Oh the petrol tank went rusty around it's seams very quickly and was a bit of a worry as after only 3 years the seams were buckling with the rust. I ended up Waxoyling the frame instead of repainting and did the same to the fuel tank. Other than that it was faultless. Like Paul I used Fowlers for parts, they are pretty good but Suzuki dealers locally to me were also spot on but expensive.

One other question. Have you considered the Vespa GTS300. I went from my Burgman 400 straight to the GTS300 and haven't looked back. It's still pretty good with storage under the seat and in other places. Very fast and easy to work on, and unlike the Burgmans, no rust! My Vespa is in it's 5th year with me and it's still brand new to look at and it's much cheaper to run than the Burgman. It's comfy even for folks like me at 6'2" even when on a 3-400 mile run. Yes, I've done those on it and it's fine! Never had any trouble with it. Just a thought! Take one out, you may get the shock of your life! I did.

[2wheelover51]

Thanks for that Data. I also do my own maintenance etc. and I'm also a devoted Waxoyl user! I'm really looking for a low mileage 2008 onwards Burger in silver or grey and if I can get one with hand guards, top box etc, then all the better. They are the best looking in my view. I'll make sure I check for rust in the areas you mention, although it might be a bit difficult if I buy over the web. I did read about problems with the secondary throttle butterfly and wondered if this was a common problem on the 400 models?
My last experience of Vespas was with a 125, circa about 1978 bought for £25 off a neighbour, and thoroughly reliable. As you say I'm sure I'd be pleasantly surprised by one of the later models. I might take a test ride on one if the opportunity comes up. There are always lots of Burgers for sale on MCN and ebay, but with lockdown it's a bit difficult to check them out at the moment.

[Symcity]

Think I’d be holding on to the cbf as a backup - should be able to source a burger I’m sure - oh that burger in marriots looks tidy

[Data]

Yes if going for the 2008 Burgman 400 try to get as late a one as you can. The clutch on the 2008's, like the 2007 before it was a 3 shoes unit. This was a flawed design and overheated regularly and was later replaced with the new and current 5 shoe model. There was a free of charge retro fit for customers with the 3 shoe design but I don't think you can get that free now. So if you do get one question if you can what clutch it has. I've replaced several of the old 3 shoes units for the latest 5 shoe ones and it's a must have unit mod. The STVA on the throttle body does give problems as they age. It's very expensive to sort out. You hear of folks fiddling with them and saying it's fixed. As yet I've rarely found that to be the case and they often end up replacing the whole unit at huge cost. It's not a deal breaker but something to check and consider. The later bikes are much better in that respect. Rectifiers also fail on earlier bikes and some later bikes due to manufacturing issues. Most should have been replaced by now but I've come across lots that still haven't been done. So again make sure the battery is ok and charging correctly. Again, I'd say get the latest model you can and anything 2012 or above is far superior and has a better torque curve and better power output due to ecu modifications. 2007 onwards bikes don't as standard have hand guards. Those will be an extra. The executive model than I had was a 2012 and had the hand guards fitted as standard to complement the heated grips. You can get some pretty good Burgmans second hand on bike trader from dealers at sometimes not much more money than an earlier bike, especially if the dealer is trying to recoup cash for a particular month. So I would say hang out for as late a bike as you can. It will likely pay dividends if you do as it will most likely have less rust, and fewer issues elsewhere. I loved my Burgman but the pull of a Vespa GTS300 was just too much after I made the mistake of taking a test ride on one. Had to have it!

And before you do the deed with the Burgman, I really really suggest you get that test ride on a GTS300. You'll get a hell of a shock and it may alter your plans. I've said that to many folks in the last few years and it's thrown them into a tizzy as to which bike to get, and they have often ended up getting the Vespa after doing a complete 'U' turn on what they were looking for. You can see my review of a couple of GTS300's in the bike Piaggio review section lower down the home page. Since then my bike has gotten faster, more economical and even more fun. Sorry, did I say how good they were...lol. Good luck!

[2wheelover51]

Thanks guys.
Data, you certainly sound sold on the Vespa. And since you've had both I may have to investigate further. Have you any idea when they started fitting the 5 shoe clutch to the Burgman? I realise I could find one thats been converted, but if I go for the Burgman I'll take your advice and get a 2012 onwards model. Out of all the scooters I prefer the looks of the TMax, but the Burgmans get such great mpg (and I think the Vespas do also) that I don't think it's going to be another TMax, unless an offer comes along that I can't refuse.
Symcity, much as I'd like to keep the CBF, it would be impractical as I don't have a garage and since I also have a car, it would get ridden very little. But we'll see.

[Data]

Actually the 5 shoe clutch did come in during 2008 but we had quite a few 3 shoe bikes being sold in 2008 so it's best to assume the 5 shoes bikes came in from late 2008 or early 2009. Conversion is easy as you probably know but you don't want the expense if you can avoid it. But it's not just the clutch you can benefit from by getting the later bikes. The Burgman 400's were continually refined and improved over the following years and by 2012 the Mk2 Burgman was indeed at the pinnacle of it's life. Just about all the fiddly issues were fixed and it was bullet proof. The 2012's were also very very economical due to ecu improvements.

The GTS Vespa is also very economical as you mention. It too is bullet proof and again if you can get a late 2014 onwards as they have the 32bit ecu (more midrange power and torque), abs and traction control. Since around 2012 (I think from then onwards) they also receive electrostatically applied electrophoretic primer to prevent rust. It works! Engines are gems, easy to work on, and all parts are very very cheap, even belts and rollers (eg: new Piaggio OEM belt £79, rollers £13, air filters £5.50 etc) and everything hugely cheaper than on the Burgman (eg: airfilters £32 oem, belts more than double that of the Vespa). The Vespa GTS only requires an oil and filter change every 6,250 miles, as against the Burgmans 3,750 miles. The Vespa engine is capable of near 100,000 miles if looked after. The Burgman will match that too if it's looked after.

I did the factory course on the Burgman scooters, both 400 and 650 models. I know them pretty well. Good scooters. But I'm definitely finding the Vespas a breath of fresh air and much less fiddly and finnicky and easier to service. Good luck in your search. Come back to me if you do decide to go Burgman if there are questions you have, or indeed the same for the Vespa. I may be able to help.

[blackmoon181]

I'm going to share the love for the honda SH300i. the vespa's less attractive sister. Don't get me wrong i have much love for the vespa 300 but as a once year long commuter circa 13k miles i couldn't put her through that kind of punishment and opted for the honda. ironically she is also made in italy. Not quite Beverly fast but handles great. don't put YSS shocks on the rear like i did. far too harsh.

Have no trouble nipping into the shops leaving her outside and knowning no one will give her a second look! especially in grey...

[DTO]

Data- ped parts have genuine Piaggio 250/300 belts on offer for £44.95 .

https://www.pedparts.co.uk/product/7506 ... a-250300cc

I ordered one as my gts300 is 7 years old now on original belt but only done 5000km .
Do you think the rollers/sliders should be changed too or can I get away with just the belt ?

[wightegi]

Data- ped parts have genuine Piaggio 250/300 belts on offer for £44.95 .

https://www.pedparts.co.uk/product/7506 ... a-250300cc

I ordered one as my gts300 is 7 years old now on original belt but only done 5000km .
Do you think the rollers/sliders should be changed too or can I get away with just the belt ?

If you are doing the belt it would make sense to change the rollers and sliders at the same time .or you could go for Dr Puley Sliders.