Car oil in your scooter - ever been tempted?

[R1K SU]

I did an oil and filter change on my FZ1 with castrol gtx, didnt notice any probs, always used car oil in my bikes.
When I did LARGE caravan transport I found that peeps used to put used oil on the caravan chasis to stop it rusting. great for them, not to great for me when i try to get hold of the caravan

[scorpakid]

i rekon its all a load of marketing guff though... car/bike oil...... fully synth defo improves performance.. i never had any clutch slip probs when i used it in my roadbikes....

also..i once put diesel engine oil in me ol gsx750.... not one scrap of difference.....

[Wolf]

I agree I will try car oil in mana at next service as bike oil is a rip off

Tapatalk 2

[Data]

Just a slight cautionary note about diesel specific oil in petrol engines, especially bike petrol engines. Diesel engine oil can contain much more deterget than petrol engine oil. In a petrol engine, at high revs this can make it foam considerably compared to normal petrol engine oil. This causes the oil to be dilated with air under pressure and has been found to cause increased and rapid engine wear on the main engine components at high revs. This also causes the oil to break down very quickly as the oil Shear rate increases expotentially even in engines that are not noted for shearing oil excessively. So be careful on that one.

[Wolf]

So would you try car oil in a mana ? just petrol engine oil

Tapatalk 2

[ridinhigh]

Yes would use car engine oil in bikes and have done, but petrol engine oil only, NOT Diesel engine oil,

because as stated above, by Data

[Data]

Hi Wolf, I don't actually know much about the Mana, or it's clutch system. Is it dry? Even so, I suspect it would be ok even if it is a wet clutch as long as you don't use a low energy friction reducing oil. Modern car oil does break down more quickly in a bike engine if the same lube it used to lube the gearbox. So you would of course use it at your own risk. But even though it would probably be ok, I wouldn 't use a car oil now in a bike for reasons below.

On this whole point concerning car oil in bikes, I think one needs to be careful to some degree these days, if that's the way you go. Much of the internet postings on this subject saying it's ok are years old when lube requirements for cars were a bit different. Now, bike engines have evolved with much higher outputs in the last few years. And yet the car oil we all talk about has changed and isn't as good at lubing bike engines/gearboxes, or higher revving bike engines. Much of the heavy metals in car oil, and which were not really needed as much by cars, but needed by bikes for lubing have been removed. This makes using car oil in bikes a more risky thing. We all moan about bike oil prices and how it's a rip off! But actually, having met with oil manufacturers myself during some R & D for our own engine dev program, I can say confidently that bike oil is not a rip off. It has stuff in it that is optimum for our higher revving, hotter engines that makes it last and protect much better than car oil. Car oils generally don't seem to like a bike engine environment. Bike oil is more expensive to produce generally. It's a smaller market for the oil companies and they have had to do a lot of reseach and still do it everyday. Bike oil uses more of the expensive elements in it to make it safe for long term high output engine use, these are anti-shear polymers, viscocity index improvers etc. And it works. Don't think I would use anything other than bike oil these days, and to minimise the cost I get my oil online from Smith & Allan with free delivery. They supply more oil to individuals and big garages than any other supplier in the UK and their oil is generally cheaper, although it does go up and down depending on brand etc. They are on Ebay with a shop and that's the best place to find them for the likes of us.

I have used car oil in my big bikes in the past, once as a stop gap as I couldn't get the bike oil I wanted. It was 'Comma Eurolight' which at the time was Comma's car and bike oil combined. The recipe has changed now and I wouldn't use it now. It doesn't have the shear resistance needed by bikes engines. And before anyone says that's a recycled oil, no it isn't!

PS. I know this oil question is a contraversial one amongst bikers, and if you use it in your scooter it's probably going to be ok. But from what I know now, it won't do your engine the best of favours. Bike oil lubes your engine much better for longer. But as usual, it's up to individuals to make their choice.

[Wolf]

Data, Thank you, very good simple explanation for me based on what your saying I'll stick to bike oil just to be on the safe side, I will take a look at Smith & Allan oils see if they can beat Halfords bike oil at £10 a Litre.

No idea if the Mana's clutch system is dry or wet must be wet with the oil though

[scorpakid]

thanks for the info data.... when i used the diesel engine oil in my gsx750... i had actually bought the oil thinking it was just 10/40 engine oil...
a pal did say to me at the time it will be ok it just has extra cleaning detergents in it like you said...but i didnt know about the foaming possibility... but
it was in a 750 which rarely revved over 7 thou... i did cane it back from liverpool to london once at 95mph and it was well ok... but in future i will try to read the poxy label properly...

[irev]

Hi Wolf, I don't actually know much about the Mana, or it's clutch system. Is it dry? Even so, I suspect it would be ok even if it is a wet clutch as long as you don't use a low energy friction reducing oil. Modern car oil does break down more quickly in a bike engine if the same lube it used to lube the gearbox. So you would of course use it at your own risk. But even though it would probably be ok, I wouldn 't use a car oil now in a bike for reasons below.

On this whole point concerning car oil in bikes, I think one needs to be careful to some degree these days, if that's the way you go. Much of the internet postings on this subject saying it's ok are years old when lube requirements for cars were a bit different. Now, bike engines have evolved with much higher outputs in the last few years. And yet the car oil we all talk about has changed and isn't as good at lubing bike engines/gearboxes, or higher revving bike engines. Much of the heavy metals in car oil, and which were not really needed as much by cars, but needed by bikes for lubing have been removed. This makes using car oil in bikes a more risky thing. We all moan about bike oil prices and how it's a rip off! But actually, having met with oil manufacturers myself during some R & D for our own engine dev program, I can say confidently that bike oil is not a rip off. It has stuff in it that is optimum for our higher revving, hotter engines that makes it last and protect much better than car oil. Car oils generally don't seem to like a bike engine environment. Bike oil is more expensive to produce generally. It's a smaller market for the oil companies and they have had to do a lot of reseach and still do it everyday. Bike oil uses more of the expensive elements in it to make it safe for long term high output engine use, these are anti-shear polymers, viscocity index improvers etc. And it works. Don't think I would use anything other than bike oil these days, and to minimise the cost I get my oil online from Smith & Allan with free delivery. They supply more oil to individuals and big garages than any other supplier in the UK and their oil is generally cheaper, although it does go up and down depending on brand etc. They are on Ebay with a shop and that's the best place to find them for the likes of us.

I have used car oil in my big bikes in the past, once as a stop gap as I couldn't get the bike oil I wanted. It was 'Comma Eurolight' which at the time was Comma's car and bike oil combined. The recipe has changed now and I wouldn't use it now. It doesn't have the shear resistance needed by bikes engines. And before anyone says that's a recycled oil, no it isn't!

PS. I know this oil question is a contraversial one amongst bikers, and if you use it in your scooter it's probably going to be ok. But from what I know now, it won't do your engine the best of favours. Bike oil lubes your engine much better for longer. But as usual, it's up to individuals to make their choice.

What he said.
Having been involved in oil development for those bike oil manufacturers it is NOT snake oil. BUT the gains for a lower-specific output engine as found in a Maxi and the fixed relationship between rpm/road speed and massively closer replacement intervals in bikes/scoots should ensure that as long as you stay away from friction modifiers it should be safe, and a cost benefit. Just don't use it as an excuse to skip oil-change intervals even though car oils are designed to sit in the sump for years. Use the cheapness to change more often. Cleaner oil is more beneficial than costlier, every time...

NDA-modified personal history: I tested new motorcycle oils for a seriously humungous, extremely large lube conglomerate. I can't say which...
While at MIRA on a turbocharged Blackbird I had my fastest every crash at 192mph. following a bottom end seizure at very high speed coming off the banking. The cause was the heat transfer rate and the high-speed viscosity, the recipe for which was being calculated with empirical testing. After alteration, it was successfully used in WSB.

Worst case scenario, but the differences that motorcycle oils require from car counterparts are actually quite important. Do maxis' run at 150+ mph for hours at a time..?