Burgman 400 & 650 new models 2013

[Bluebottle]

For me the "step" is ........

Ta, with only the negatives listed I wasn't quite sure what you were saying.

So if Honda got it's act together and sorted out the NC Honda range would you buy one?

Possibly
I buy bikes new so that they are run-in to my own ideas/satisfaction - apart from a couple of vehicles I built for myself.
I like Honda's philosophy toward materials and reliability, unfortunately they didn't have a 250-400 maxi in the UK market when I was looking for one. If Suzuki do a nice job of the next burger 400 next year then they will probably get my business again.

Other than that, I'm a designer so it is natural for me to be interested in what people say about designs or styling, positive and negative.

[MrGrumpy]

The things I would like to see in the NC S/X are a smoother running engine with rubber mountings to eliminate vibration, a shaft final drive for reduced maintenance, a centre stand for practicality, a bigger, deeper and comfier seat, bigger storage compartment and hydraulic automatic valve adjustment.
And as for the Integra, let's not even go there, It's just a complete and utter fail.

Yeah...utterly with you there, though I'd also add better weather protection (or at least an additional faired version.

[MrGrumpy]

So if Honda got it's act together and sorted out the NC Honda range would you buy one? It seems that the Muppets have been endlessly discussing or slagging off new scooters and bikes since last year when the 2012 models were announced, and the arguments have now moved on to what's wrong with this years stuff and what may come out in 2013.

If the Integra had a decent sized luggage compartment and didn't have chain drive, I'd certainly consider one. The DCT is an interesting concept (not quite sure how well it works in practice), the suspension and handling are supposed to be pretty good, and I thought it was quite pretty and also compact.

[Deleted User 796]

The things I would like to see in the NC S/X are a smoother running engine with rubber mountings to eliminate vibration, a shaft final drive for reduced maintenance, a centre stand for practicality, a bigger, deeper and comfier seat, bigger storage compartment and hydraulic automatic valve adjustment.
And as for the Integra, let's not even go there, It's just a complete and utter fail.

Yeah...utterly with you there, though I'd also add better weather protection (or at least an additional faired version.

Me too, make the body style a kind of Pan euro lite - chunky, good fairing and with slightly bigger storage that will fit any helmet and a good seat for a pillion - and keep the price similar and Id bend my credit card for one no problem! There are a lot of things to like about the bike, good value, great service intervals, enough power and good fuel economy are all massive plus points.

Or failing that update the newer design silverwing with that engine, that'd do me too

[gn2]

Or failing that update the newer design silverwing with that engine, that'd do me too

God no, that engine in its current 270 crank format is completely and totally 100% fecking awful.

[MrGrumpy]

Or failing that update the newer design silverwing with that engine, that'd do me too

God no, that engine in its current 270 crank format is completely and totally 100% fecking awful.

I've yet to ride either the Honda or the BMW which also has a 270 degree crank, though I've read several comments that the Tmax's engine is far smoother, and as I'm not a Ducati or Harley wannabe, so the Tmax engine sounds like a better idea to me! There again, on my brief ride, I didn't find the vibes from the V-twin Deauville particularly noticeable, so maybe it won't be a problem.

However, the Yamaha TDM also had a 270 degree crank, and that was always described as being a very pleasant engine with few vibrations - has anyone here ridden one of those, and if so how did it compare?

[gn2]

Don't lump Ducati in with Harley, the two are like chalk and cheese.
The Ducati has a beautifully balanced motorcycle engine with 180° spaced firing intervals, whereas a Harley is more like a rusty broken down old tractor.

[poldark]

Or failing that update the newer design silverwing with that engine, that'd do me too

God no, that engine in its current 270 crank format is completely and totally 100% fecking awful.

I've yet to ride either the Honda or the BMW which also has a 270 degree crank, though I've read several comments that the Tmax's engine is far smoother, and as I'm not a Ducati or Harley wannabe, so the Tmax engine sounds like a better idea to me! There again, on my brief ride, I didn't find the vibes from the V-twin Deauville particularly noticeable, so maybe it won't be a problem.

However, the Yamaha TDM also had a 270 degree crank, and that was always described as being a very pleasant engine with few vibrations - has anyone here ridden one of those, and if so how did it compare?

Had one for 3.5 years and it was very smooth with no vibes, only grunty low down torque with plenty of oomph.

I'm no expert but I believe the 270 degree format isn't the issue but rather the overall design and use (or otherwise) of balancer shaft(s) to cancel out unwanted vibes.

[gn2]

The 270 is the issue because it induces additional vibration which then needs to be removed by balancers and isolation.
There is no isolation in the Honda NC.
Looking back a few decades the Kawasaki GT550 and GT750 had rubber mounted engines and were unbelievably smooth for four cylinder motorbikes.
It's a shame that ideas in use back in the 80s like this system of isolating the rider from vibration, shaft drive and hydraulic valve adjusters (as used by Honda themselves in the CBX750 and CB Sevenfifty) have been abandoned.
Maybe I'm just an old phart but it seems to me that road bike design has steadily been going backwards.

[rintintin]

Looking back a few decades the Kawasaki GT550 and GT750 had rubber mounted engines and were unbelievably smooth for four cylinder motorbikes.
It's a shame that ideas in use back in the 80s like this system of isolating the rider from vibration, shaft drive and hydraulic valve adjusters (as used by Honda themselves in the CBX750 and CB Sevenfifty) have been abandoned.
Maybe I'm just an old phart but it seems to me that road bike design has steadily been going backwards.

Yes, just to digress slightly, I had a 1950 Sunbeam S7 (twin in line 500 with shaft drive) in the 1970/80's which had chunky rubber snubbers between engine and frame, which made it very smooth (although the transverse flywheel did affect the handling a bit !).