New Burgmans at last

[MrGrumpy]

The cause is, of course, the sheer basic mass of the `system` and the utter crapness of the `that'll do for a scooter` mindset of the dweebs in Suzuki's QC department who clearly have a basic lack of understanding that 550lbs of scooter travelling at 100mph is just the same as 550lbs of motorcycle travelling at the same speed and needs the same level of suspension control.

One area where the BMW's may well justify their cost, as the new roadtests are revealing.

All the new Burgers need is half the weight and double the fuel mileage. .

I'm think I'm with you most of the way there. The Burger 650 really does need to go on a serious diet for 2013, and something more sophisticated in the suspension department might make it a whole load more fun, especially if they keep the humungous luggage compartment!

[irev]

Air suspension both ends, no springs. That's a good start, with electronically-controlled damping and onboard preload adjsutment via a pushbutton dash. The reasons for this are simple, and mechanical - scooters with smaller wheels have to have greater weight in those wheels to provide equivalent gyroscopic stability at equivalent speed. YOu can achive the same results inwith light weght wheels (a la racing bikes) but that dicates a necessarily high-end and complex suspension solution, assuming the rest of the package sticks with the neanderthal hihh-headstock design and stupid extending tubes that combine braking, steering and suspension forces into one ineffiecient unit.

If we accept that Suzuki probably won't go for a hub-centre-steered or other modern front end - like car wishbone (it's only been around for a hundred years so it's probably far too new-fangled for the old fogies in motorcycle design) - then you can improve the quality of damping and response by getting rid of the coiled springs. This makes them lighter, (substantially so - about .75 kilos for each fork leg), reduces stiction by at least 20% for a smoother ride, and as air increases resistance as travel increases, provides for a degree of self-compensation, making them much easier to set up.

This is already in production on dirt bikes (Honda, Kawasaki are using the KYB versions and Showa have production examples) then the next generation of maxis could use them with on-board adjustment for a smoother, more compliant ride with the possibility of auto-adjustment for pennies rather than pounds, as it's mostly software and monitoring.

The same weight loss thinking can then be applied to the rest of the package.

[MrGrumpy]

Air suspension both ends, no springs. That's a good start, with electronically-controlled damping and onboard preload adjsutment via a pushbutton dash.

If we accept that Suzuki probably won't go for a hub-centre-steered or other modern front end - like car wishbone (it's only been around for a hundred years so it's probably far too new-fangled for the old fogies in motorcycle design) - then you can improve the quality of damping and response by getting rid of the coiled springs. This makes them lighter, (substantially so - about .75 kilos for each fork leg), reduces stiction by at least 20% for a smoother ride, and as air increases resistance as travel increases, provides for a degree of self-compensation, making them much easier to set up.

Yes...I think that might be rather a lot of steps too far for Suzuki! Ditching the crappy twin shock arrangement at the back and putting some sort of monoshock in, and some better front forks would improve matters immensely, and not scare the horses or accountants.

[barryG]

Erm, the Burgman 400 has a monoshock at the rear already. Its comfy but crap 2 up as the stand digs in on bends

[Deleted User 796]

I think the new Burgmans will be nothing more than cosmetic changes - i.e. new body work, some leds here and there and nothing else. I can't believe Suzuki would actually bother to put any serious r&d into them. I really hope I'm wrong though.

[MrGrumpy]

Erm, the Burgman 400 has a monoshock at the rear already. Its comfy but crap 2 up as the stand digs in on bends

I was thinking of the 650 rather than the 400. My grump with the 650 was that it just couldn't handle bumpy back roads, or at least made them a joyless grind. I guess 400 has its own issues, which are more down to its basic design

[barryG]

The 400 is superb really, looks nice, goes well and generally well made... it does need the rear suspension beefing up and clutch issues sorting though. However, the ABS model is supidly expensive and makes a good case for buying an X10.

[Sgt Ernie Bilko]

Judging Suzuki's lack of activity (and lack of money) over the last few years I can't really see them investing in any new Burgman models...

[Data]

Incidentally, I saw a thread on busa going to a link that says the Burgmans are both cosmetically redesigned throughout but no mechanical changes. I didn't copy the link and can't find it now. If that's the case, and the article wasn't a very good article from what I saw, then especially for the 650's transmission, that's a shame. The clutch on the 400 could probably do with a redesign but at least any issues that someone might get with that are easily fixed, and manageable and kept at bay with proper servicing, which most suzi dealers seem to do correctly now. It's cheap too. I've done just 3000 miles of stop and go and cruising but mine is fine at the mo. Sudden loss of drive on the 650 is something else though. It's mega failure and costly. From an engineering point of view it is a case of 'when' not 'if' the drive belt goes on the 650. This is the case for all non replaceable drive belts. I guess we will have to wait and see though!

[Dave Weller]

Data, good morning to you, there is nothing really wrong with the B650 transmission, only a few early models have failed, newer than K5 have been revised, it may be wise to renew the steel belt at 50,000 miles but many will run much farther.
At the first sign of clutch slip, the F1 light comes on and the belt or clutch plates requires renewing.
The latest failure was a London commuter bike 5 years old K7 (30,000 miles), it turned out to be clutch plates, which could be due to town use, or the rider feathering the clutch at lights or holding it on slight inclines.
Cost wise, doing regular belt changes on other big maxi scoots, could cost the owner more.