Progress....

[Data]

chippie, modern engines run very hot indeed compared to engines of just a few short years ago. This means the engine components and materials used have special needs (bit like me really!) To meet these needs the engine coolant is quite high tech now compared to even 10-15 years ago. The engine coolant does several jobs. It prevents engines from freezing, and it prevents engines from boiling over easily by raising the engine coolant boiling point. In addition it prevents corrosion in the engine cooling tracts and cooling system overall. It also has the very important job of lubricating the water pump seals, without which, the water pump will fail with alarming regularity. As time goes by, the chemicals in the engine coolant that does all of those things begins to degrade. As it degrades it can actually cause corrosion inside the engine. It also doesn't continue to lubricate the water pump very well. The boiling point begins to lower, and the freezing point begins to raise. In addition, in more severe cases of neglect the rad begins to block and becomes less efficient. So do stick to the recommended coolant change periods. Use a long life product for your engine. ONLY use the recommended coolant and DON'T mix them as you can be in a world of pain if you do. Put the wrong stuff in and your whole engine can be toast in a very very short time. Be sure to avoid coolant that has Silicates in it. Mix that in with stuff that isn't designed to have it mixed and your engine will be eaten away from the inside in 3 months or less. Always follow the manual on this is my advice. If you go over the recommend period for a coolant change by a few months it won't matter but don't leave it too long. You may regret it when the water pump starts to leak! Just saying....

[halfabusa]

I couldn't have imagined how important a coolant might be! I always ignored flushing and changing it and only topped it up with whatever i could find (pound shop coolant, tap water, etc) and never had problems. But after reading above, i'm frankly scared!

I'll treat it with more respect from now on.

Bonus question: What does coolant flush and engine flush do and how should we use them? Everytime i change oil in the bike engine, once i run the engine a few minutes and let it settle, the observation window shows instantly darkened oil, even if i dumped all of the oil including a filter change. Would an engine flush cure that and show all clean oil after a flush and an oil+filter change?

[Data]

Hello halfa busa. If the recommended intervals for coolant change are being adhered to then a coolant flush should not be needed. But if you are changing your coolant to another type, away from the manufacturer recommended one, (but to one that is still suitable for your engine) then a flush will be needed. If for example, the manufacturers recommended coolant has silicates in it, then you MUST do a coolant flush if switching to one that does not have them. It's a good idea to do one anyway as you dont' want two potentially different types of coolant mixing. And there is always some of the old stuff left in your engine after draining. And if it has any silicate in it, it will usually result in severe engine damage as the tiny amounts of silicate still left in the engine, and the new coolant mix and react with each other causing massive corrosion inside your engine. Having said that, there are fewer coolants now with silicate in them. But you must check. Then there is the other type of coolant 'flush'. This is one designed to unclogg your radiator and water ways. These are quite vicious to your system and should not be used routinely, only when and if needed.

Regarding your dirty oil thing. If the oil is showing very dirty right after a change is sounds as if you may not be getting all the old oil out. Does your manual tell you to drain the bike on it's centre or side stand? This is important. If you drain it on the wrong stand, you may be leaving a quantity of old dirty oil in the sump which is the culprit. Even a small amount of old oil will have that effect. An easy error to make! However, depending how old and how many miles you have done you could easily flush the engine with a proprietory flushing oil or additive. But I think firstly I would not use a flushing oil or additive in the first instance. I would simply drain the old oil, leave the old filter in place and refill with some cheap oil of the correct grade. Then ride the bike for 10 miles and after letting it cool a little, just change the oil again (and filter this time) using the best oil you can afford. I bet it stays clean for a lot longer after that.

OIL FLUSHING DANGER: If you use a proprietory oil flushing agent to do the task you may get more than you bargained for. Some additives are very aggressive and will remove all old debris and sludge and muck. If the engine has covered substantial mileage, you may then find some oil leaks from crankshaft seals etc as the flushing agent will have removed the plug of muck around the seal. This is not too uncommon and is best to avoid using the flushing additives on higher mileage engines unless absolutely necessary.

[chippie]

chippie, modern engines run very hot indeed compared to engines of just a few short years ago. This means the engine components and materials used have special needs (bit like me really!) To meet these needs the engine coolant is quite high tech now compared to even 10-15 years ago. The engine coolant does several jobs. It prevents engines from freezing, and it prevents engines from boiling over easily by raising the engine coolant boiling point. In addition it prevents corrosion in the engine cooling tracts and cooling system overall. It also has the very important job of lubricating the water pump seals, without which, the water pump will fail with alarming regularity. As time goes by, the chemicals in the engine coolant that does all of those things begins to degrade. As it degrades it can actually cause corrosion inside the engine. It also doesn't continue to lubricate the water pump very well. The boiling point begins to lower, and the freezing point begins to raise. In addition, in more severe cases of neglect the rad begins to block and becomes less efficient. So do stick to the recommended coolant change periods. Use a long life product for your engine. ONLY use the recommended coolant and DON'T mix them as you can be in a world of pain if you do. Put the wrong stuff in and your whole engine can be toast in a very very short time. Be sure to avoid coolant that has Silicates in it. Mix that in with stuff that isn't designed to have it mixed and your engine will be eaten away from the inside in 3 months or less. Always follow the manual on this is my advice. If you go over the recommend period for a coolant change by a few months it won't matter but don't leave it too long. You may regret it when the water pump starts to leak! Just saying....

It always amazes me how you can make a sentence into a book so I'll show you how easy it is to get your point across.
In my opinion that's bollock's.

[MrGrumpy]

It always amazes me how you can make a sentence into a book so I'll show you how easy it is to get your point across.
In my opinion that's bollock's.

Impressively brief and to the point, but rather lacking any persuasive arguments, evidence or reasoning........

[Data]

chippie, I go on a bit! Well said. But bollox!!...you need a good read up on the subject to bring yourself up to date. A lot has changed in recent years. You were reception, I was tech. We both come from the 'otherside' so I reckon you know it's right.

[victor]

do you buy your wife a present for her birthday? do you wrap it with bows and ribbons and paper or get a bunch flowers and say there you go!!
I cannot see the point of getting the recommended oils I.E. dealers prices as long as they do the job whats the problem.
who buy piaggio oils from dealers or suzuki ETC

[chippie]

It always amazes me how you can make a sentence into a book so I'll show you how easy it is to get your point across.
In my opinion that's bollock's.

Impressively brief and to the point, but rather lacking any persuasive arguments, evidence or reasoning........[/quote

A very wise man once told me never to argue your point if you think your right.
Evidence or reasoning none just pure experience.

[barryG]

The coolant thing makes me laugh, how many dealers keep different coolants for different engines.... NONE, they all buy the cheapest they can get in bulk, same as oils and chuck it in regardless. If anyone thinks their wheels are being lovingly maintained for you they are mistaken.

For example.... their isnt a Piaggio dealer in Hants or Dorset thats ever used 5w40 fullysynth in their servicing, unless you ask first

You ask a dealer what type of coolant they are putting in your engine... see them look at you like your a loony!!!!

[Data]

As it happens barry, my dealer keeps two types of engine coolant in both generic and Suzuki brands. Oils that he keeps are Castrol and Valvoline and it's Valvoline he uses in bulk for servicing. He has fully and semi syn too. Victor, I have no idea what you are talking about! chippie, not sure what to make of you! Funny arguement you make, or don't as it happens. But you definitely need a read on the subject of coolant. I suspect your experience is of a very dubious nature and just because you haven't had a bad experience following your method of coolant maintenance it isn't reason to ignore good practice and the facts! Even a visit to Halfords will show you what an array of coolants there are on the shelf. Many would be suitable for your bike, but it's up to you to check these things. Anyhoo, we are well off the beaten subject...and all I was doing was answering a ligitimate question from a poster. If you don't agree with anything I say that's fine, but don't put mis-information into the process as it's easy to mislead someone into doing something that could cause damage to their engine. That's the last thing anyone of us would want isn't it?