GTscootz wrote:I hear you, just thought the plastic moldings would be an inhouse issue?? A little bird chirped about engine engaging when the new auto hand brake was on?? Which moves from a quality issue on to safety ???

I haven't heard of that one before! Normally if you put your sidestand down on an auto the engine is killed, and the BMW is supposed to put the handbrake on at the same time. So if they've got something wrong with the logic circuits, that could be a BIG (safety) issue.

Plastics - I'd guess that they are as likely to be supplied by outside firms as in house. I know that a local company has built a new factory just to supply moulded plastic parts to Nissan at Sunderland, so its not obviously unknown for such things to be contracted out. If the plastics come from one place, engines from Kymco, brakes & suspension parts from elsewhere, you wonder how much of the scoot BMW might actually make!

MrGrumpy wrote:
........If the plastics come from one place, engines from Kymco, brakes & suspension parts from elsewhere, you wonder how much of the scoot BMW might actually make!

Just the badges and the price stickers I reckon!

I have a good friend from Duisburg, who knows an employee of BMW. He tells me the employee says anyone who spends that kind of money on a scooter of that quality is stupid.... its not much BMW at all.

The C1 could have the engine running while the stand was down. It just wouldn't let you ride away. Same with the seatbelts - no click? No lick..
I see no safety issue with having the engine run while the sidestand is down. Only having the drive engage.

TWO entirely separate issues.

I do see a safety issue when you have to put it on the centrestand just to go back and shut the garage door, or put your gloves on while sitting astride the machine with neither hand near the controls, or ride away on a stone cold engine because there's no way to let the bike warm up while you do the walkround checks...

And most of BMW's engine production hasn't been coming from BMW for years, save for the flat twins. Ask Rotax.

It's the same bollox as claiming Hardley Ablesons are `American made`. They ain't, and haven't been since the AWF days. And we all know how that turned out...

Vehicle manufacture today is a Global enterprise. Assembly comes from parts made everywhere. That's the fact, and it makes no difference whether you like it or not, it's still the fact.

irev wrote:Vehicle manufacture today is a Global enterprise. Assembly comes from parts made everywhere.

Im it total agreement with that, the problem I have with the way BMW are marketing their TGS is that they are not exactly being open about the provenance of the components.

I got a phone call from my local BMW Motorad dealer after having made enquires, prior to knowing the price!! And the salesman told me they had been delayed due to an issue regarding the panels and he couldn't give me a definate release date

I think the message I take from this is not to be first in the queue when they come out. Give it a few months for all the issues to come out rather than be their 'beta' tester.

What strikes me as strange, is that the flimsy panels were spotted straight away at both Milan and the NEC, so why do BMW themselves not notice and do something sooner?

GTscootz wrote:What strikes me as strange, is that the flimsy panels were spotted straight away at both Milan and the NEC, so why do BMW themselves not notice and do something sooner?

Ah...the strange way of big companies... The minions on the ground almost certainly noticed the problems straightaway, but no doubt they weren't listened to by the big beasts in the boardroom. It probably wasn't until a member of the management team accidentally read a press report that criticised the quality that something actually happened.

MrGrumpy wrote:

GTscootz wrote:What strikes me as strange, is that the flimsy panels were spotted straight away at both Milan and the NEC, so why do BMW themselves not notice and do something sooner?

Ah...the strange way of big companies... The minions on the ground almost certainly noticed the problems straightaway, but no doubt they weren't listened to by the big beasts in the boardroom. It probably wasn't until a member of the management team accidentally read a press report that criticised the quality that something actually happened.

In a nutshell yes. The petrol flap came away in my gentle hands at the NEC... And I spoke to a guy who was arranging the training for BMW and I did mention the dubious build quality although to be fair it wasn't his department but thought he might relay my concerns to BMW HQ. Obviously not. I also mentioned pitching a new maxi-scooter higher than Yamaha's ridiculous pricing structure would be financial suicide in the UK....