poldark wrote:...I'd suggest that one driver for BMW expanding into scoots is that their vast number of loyal GS riders will pretty soon need something lighter and easier to handle as they age...

Surprisingly to many perhaps, and certainly to me when I first discovered this, the C600 and C650GT scooters are actually heavier than a standard 1200 GS.

Here are the figures, on a wet basis

GS 238k
C600 249kg
C650GT 261kg

Even the R1200RT tourer at 259kg is a fraction lighter than the C650GT as is the GS 1200 Adventure version at 256kg.

Not quite sure why this should be, but it is. The GS and RT are far more powerful and have some additional features such as cruise control on the RT for example. I was actually surprised that BM didn't include cruise on their scooters, especially the GT version. Cruise is pretty standard now on touring motorcycles and really useful too, speaking from experience. If the GT is meant to be used for touring, which is what "GT" actually means, then it should have come with cruise for its big price tag.

Scooter frames will always be heavier than bike frames for structural reasons (bike is triangulated, by definition the scooter isn't so it has to be re-enforced with extra metal/bracing

Yes, the GS is surprisingly light, but it LOOKS massive!!!

gn2 wrote:I use my scooter predominantly for transport to work and I really don't give a stuff what the press have to say.
99% of what's in the motorcycle press is complete and utter bollocks and the bulk of the journalists are tossers.

Couldn't have said it better myself

It's the same in Sweden. All bikes are considered an expensive hobby.

I must be one of the very few that ride to work often and probably the only one that goes grocery shopping regularly on two wheels.


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It usually is ("only") a hobby!
A useless, damaging and dangerous hobby for some politicians ("no economic gain"+"motorcycling should be banned" - former BW prime minister Guenther Oettinger, "I would ban motorcycling" - police director Frithof Kuehn, "ban 2 stroke immediately, no more registrations for 4 stroke, electric only!" - green party).
Look at the topsellers like R1200GS - these aren't reasonable commercial/utility/mobility vehicles.

A look around any popular biking haunt will tell you that if things are changing, they are changing extremely slowly.

Honda could invest trillions developing and building a practical, light and economical two wheeler in a modular concept that met the needs (note needs not desires) of 99% of motorcyclists....

....and the Fireblade would still outsell them!

I know what you mean...however, the UK is only a tiny dust speck in the grander scheme of Honda's activities. They've got markets of millions of practical sensible bikes in many Far Eastern markets and I guess that is far more important to them than what a few weirdos in a far corner of Western Europe want.

Further to this...there is an interview with a BMW boss in this week's MCN, who says that BMW will be releasing several ranges of sub 500cc bikes and scooters over the coming years. They are doing this to meet demand from Asia and South America, and obviously couldn't care less if snotty Brits buy them or not!

I don't know if was reported on here, but in last week's MCN they had a test of about 5 maxi scoots and overall the report was very positive, so for once MCN can be credited with some favourable Maxi scoot reporting.
The Tmax came out on top.

If I remember rightly the scoots were - BMW, Tmax, 650 Burger, Integra and the Aprilia SRV