kegelban wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 11:52 am

knight2 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 7:52 pm And for yokel no2 what's riding geared mean

riding a bike with a clutch lever and gear shift pedal (manual transmission)

Thanks for that, never heard of riding a bike being called that before. Also I wouldn't have thought a bike was at less risk of being stolen than a 750 forza.

knight2 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 10, 2023 2:47 pm Thanks for that, never heard of riding a bike being called that before. Also I wouldn't have thought a bike was at less risk of being stolen than a 750 forza.

My mechanic said that, but I suppose it's his guess, not some official info.

X ADV, Forza 750 and Tmax seem to the the scums choice of bike to nick in cities.

MrGrumpy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 12:00 pm For the benefit of us provincial yokels, please explain what the 'shove method' is!

Certainly, see below.

Waldorf wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 8:59 pm I guess that the 'shove method' is when two thieves ride up beside a lone rider, the pillion pushes the target off, jumps on the now vacant scooter and rides away.
I guess 'riding geared' is when a thief carries suitable tools for stealing.

Do I get a prize if I'm right?

Of course, Mike. However, you are incorrect this time, so close but no cigar. As you have quit smoking, this should be no hardship.

The shove method is where one powered scooter is used to push the stolen un-powered scooter along, using the rider's foot.

I shall explain further using examples.

Two thieves arrive two up on a T-Max.

The pillion jumps off and disables the physical security measures on the bike they are stealing, and sits on it to steer.

The T max rider pulls up to the right hand side of the stolen bike, and places their left foot on the stolen bike's right foot peg, or running board.

They, "shove," the stolen bike along using the power of the T Max whilst the second rider simply steers it.

This is why larger capacity autos are popular with thieves, for their usefulness as the lead bike in a shove operation.

Maybe a ratty looking silver wing would fair better?

Still reasonable performance / 90% of the forza functionality, but down on sexiness and chav allure.

Thanks, Ged; most interesting.

@kegelban, so sorry to hear that.

May I ask you a few questions? Did you leave your Almax chain chained to the lamppost (eg if that was your workplace) or did you carry that with you under the seat?
Was the Forza chained to a lammpost or was the Almax blocking the wheel like a u-lock would?
Do you know if they loaded it onto a van, somehow managed to start it, or simply pushed it away?

In terms of other security devices:

integrated trackers like BikeTrac are very good but pricey, and might drain the battery of a scooter a bit too quickly.
Something like a Monimoto with its own battery is probably a better compromise.

I notice that 16mm and 19mm chains are rated "sold secure motorcycle gold". Only the 22mm chains are rated diamond.
I think the best portable security is one of the 3 d-locks rated motorcycle diamond: Litelok X1, Litelok X3 and Hiplock D1000. There are many reviews and videos suggesting a gentleman with an angle grinder would probably need a spare battery and a spare disc to cut through those. of course they could always lift it and put it in a van.

I think a good security setup would be a Monimoto tracker and 2 u-locks: 2x Litelok X3 would be better, but an X3 and an X1 (cheaper) would still put you in the top 1% of the most secured bikes / scooters in the country.
The real issue is how to secure it to a fixed object. You can leave a big chain outside your home or workplace, if there are lampposts there, but even big chains can be cut, as you have seen.
When I had a 125 many moons ago I used to carry a Pragmasis chain (can't remember if 13mm or 11mm) with a noose, which almost doubles its usable length, under the seat.

PS Spend a little time on one of the price comparison websites and jot down a table comparing insurance quotes for various models.
That will give you an idea of which ones are considered more at risk of being stolen. Although it's just a broad indication, I wouldn't have thought the Forza 750 was so coveted to warrant spending so long cutting the chain.
When I did that (I mean, when I compared prices, not cut chains!!!) I noticed that insuring some cheaper 125s was actually cheaper than insuring some more expensive 300cc scooters, which I wouldn't have imagined. Either the algorithms went haywire, or it's because 125s are at much greater risk.

YetAnotherMuppet wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:01 pmMay I ask you a few questions? Did you leave your Almax chain chained to the lamppost (eg if that was your workplace) or did you carry that with you under the seat? Was the Forza chained to a lammpost or was the Almax blocking the wheel like a u-lock would?

The chain was carried on the bike. Actually in the motorcycle bay I was parked at the time of the theft there are no anchor-like thing to attach the chain to .

YetAnotherMuppet wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:01 pmDo you know if they loaded it onto a van, somehow managed to start it, or simply pushed it away?

Acording to the witnesses, just pushed away, but later seemed to have used the shoving technique explained by Capitano. I have received a PCN for a traffic offense with the video clip showing two bikes riding nearly parallel.

YetAnotherMuppet wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:01 pmI think a good security setup would be a Monimoto tracker and 2 u-locks: 2x Litelok X3 would be better, but an X3 and an X1 (cheaper) would still put you in the top 1% of the most secured bikes / scooters in the country.

Thanks for your suggestions. Monimoto sounds like a reasonable compromise, especially on anything other then the top risks (Forza, TMax, BMW C650). One thing I would like to know is if it's easy to find locations on the bike to hide it well but also be able to replace batteries every few months without a massive headache.

YetAnotherMuppet wrote: ↑Fri Oct 27, 2023 12:01 pmSpend a little time on one of the price comparison websites and jot down a table comparing insurance quotes for various models.
That will give you an idea of which ones are considered more at risk of being stolen.

Yes, I have tried it, and the funny thing is that I get nearly the same premium quote for Forza, TMax, Burgman 400, NC750X (in fact, TMax slightly cheaper than NC750X). I think those insurance companies models are really not very sensitive to what are realistic risk factors.

What perplexes me is that I routinely see quiate a few Honda NC750X , sometimes even DCT models, with no or very flimsy locks. That in a place that I would consider a greater risk than the my theft spot (I have even spotted a DCT NT1100 once without a lock there!).
Capitano's explanation makes a lot of sense, but then I would have assumed the other DCT Hondas could be similarly attractive as capable of shoving?

I was thinking about your problem and an wondered if a couple of decent handlebar brake locks would be a good
deterent on a heavy scooters some of them look quite chunky and would take a bit of cutting off,but easy for you to take off and store. If they couldn't cut them off they would have to carry it from where ever it was. I do mean in addition to other stuff.