Many people engage in pastimes that others think of as dangerous but there doesn't seem to be a call for widespread bans of these activities. It's probably down to the fact that we have a more visible presence - we should make that our priority when out on our 2 wheelers. Road positioning helps a great deal too but don't get me going on the 'loud pipes save lives' claptrap - that only gives us more negative press and turns more folk against us. If that were the case, then I would ask for a ban of all EVs as you can't hear them coming. Walking can be dangerous too - try crossing the M25 in rush hour. Climbing yet another Munroe in the Highlands when there is a warning of heavy snow, gale force winds and avalanche risk is hardly a safe thing to do but it happens every year. I wouldn't want an outright ban but common sense should prevail, just as it should with our riding. A bit of extra tuition and study could help motorcyclists and car drivers but they have their licences now - why bother?


Ian

As a biker of some advanced years, and having a varied number of scrapes, bumps, bikes falling on me, (embarrassing), and becoming an expert panel beater whilst owning a Lambretta, l have come to this conclusion.
All car drivers are out to kill you. Not intentionally, but they will if they get a chance.
Treat every other road user as if they are and you might survive.
Personally, l don’t rush, don’t filter, and if stuck in traffic, enjoy the scenery, however mundane.
I have also had a number of incidents whilst driving a car, none with a biker thankfully, but with other road users that need at the very least an eye test, and probably a driving test.
Bikes are safe, if you just remember that they are vulnerable modes of transport and invisible to those in anything with four or more wheels.

Some good points made, though I wouldn't go as far as to say all car drivers are out to kill you, even unintentionally. But I can understand some believe it is a good attitude to have. Certainly bikes and scooters are dangerous if you ride like you drive a car. A different set of hazards mean a different style of riding. I think most car drivers on a subconscious level drive more badly than they otherwise would because they know they have a metal box, crumple zones and airbags to protect them. Going back to the metal spike in the middle of the steering wheel idea.

I am going with Orcadian's idea of ignoring what my brother and others say and just carry on enjoying my riding. He is just another riding 'expert' who has never ridden. There are a lot of them about. As I have said before the 'Motorbikes are dangerous, cold and wet, no luggage space etc' attitude seems to be unique to this country. Totally different in other countries.

Finally, if bikes are dangerous because they don't have bodywork etc maybe I should change my scooter for a tank! Nothing can hurt me then!

I have the mindset that all car drivers are dick heads, why not. Look at any weekly local paper and there they are, being prosecuted for no Licence, no Insurance, no Road Tax, or MOT, driving while banned, and of course the now common driving over the legal alcohol limit, or under the influence of drugs.

They’re still dick heads whether I’m riding, driving, cycling, and simply crossing the road. The fact that a lot of car drivers unashamedly park on double yellow lines, double red lines, and block pavements. These same dick heads think putting their hazard lights on makes it OK too.

What others think of my mindset doesn’t concern me in the slightest, It beats thinking wearing a hi-vis vest is going to keep you safe.

Because cars are in the majority and take up more space. I still think a lot of them are dickheads though.

On the subject of hi-vis vests, they don't keep you safe. Nothing will. They just help. Along with keeping my speed legal and good road positioning. Since I have been wearing one I haven't had one driver pull out on me.

I'm a rider and driver.
Wearing HiViz makes it easier for me to be seen when I'm riding and to see riders when I'm driving and riding.
I do whatever I can to help drivers and riders see me when I'm riding.
It makes sense to me.

I’m not getting dragged into an online hi-vis debate. It’s as pointless as the old full face v open face helmets chestnut. If ever I feel the need to wear it I’ve got hi-vis vests in yellow, orange, and red.

These days if I feel the need to wear a vest it'll probably be under my shirt

Ministerofsillywalks wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2026 5:25 pm But with all the points made by myself and others I still don't have a convincing argument to put to my brother and other members of the 'Motorbikes are dangerous' brigade.

You don't have to argue anything.

Your life, your choice.

You have the right to say, "I am not going to discuss this." Then simply don't.

I took my bike test when I was 60 and newly retired. It improved my car driving 100%.
I would like to see every learner driver take the CBT to help them be more aware of 2 wheeled road users.
Bikes are inert, neither safe nor dangerous. The danger comes from poor drivers, poor riders and bad roads conditions.