Piaggio out Burger the Burgman.

[Data]

Yes, I agree Mac. The dealers, or lack of them at the moment is the only reason to be careful about wether you buy one or not. It influenced my decision, I had no quarms about the quality of the bikes themselves or the quality and commitment of the Sym dealer I was talking to. The importer also seemed very helpful when I phoned, telling me about how Sym is intent on expansion etc etc as you don't want to have to travel too far to find a dealer. But in my case it would have meant travelling 35 miles to my nearest Sym guy. It is and will continue to improve dealer wise though. History and marketeing formula shows us that when a manufacturer introduces new bigger models in their range of bikes or scooters (cars too), this generates more interest in the brand and if it's a good brand, as Sym clearly is with it's decades and decades of association with Honda and producing good quality bikes in it's own right too for more than 40 years, the brand does become much more popular. The GTS models have shown this process is starting already. This is due to attracting people like you and me as more and more bikers go maxi scooter riding. And this is what manufacturers want to do because the profit in selling a small scooter or bike is peanuts, but there is much much more profit in selling bigger bikes, even if you sell less of them. Believe me! That how it works for cars too. Gn2 mentioned Honda's (not by name) small 50 & 90cc jobbies as the most popular bikes in the world. They are/were. But it wasn't until they started introducing new bigger bikes that they started to make any real headway into the motorcycle market and this enable a dealer expansion program which helped too to make the 50cc jobs so popular. It wouldn't have happened without the big bike in western countries. And remember a 250cc bike was quite big in those days! The market has changed a little but the principle is the same and is the one manufacturers know well. It was the same for all the big four and all the manufacturers with few exceptions. So as you get the bigger range of bikes coming online so to speak (no, not necessarily actually online!), you need and get more dealers spreading across the country especially if the bikes are quality. I think Sym will be mega if handled right in just a few more short years in this country.

[Drago]

Well for me my SYM dealer is the closest dealer at 10 miles away. I've owned four SYM's so far and
have been happy with all of them especially when it comes to purchase price, parts price, reliabilty
and build quality.

Obviously there not perfect, the service intervals are to short and the same for non-maxi models
my DD50, Megalo 125, GTS 250 and Tonik 125 all share 3000km service intervals. Though these are
pretty much simple oil changes and a quick inspection, rarely cost that much, more a loss of a
few hours rather than having your wallet lightened. The exhuasts are prone to rusting, the manuals
is in chinglish and the importer isn't that good to be honest. Though when I went into my dealer and
said I wanted to look at the Tonik 125, it was there within a week. My dealer is in a small village and
the dealership is pretty small itself. Though the dealers are good and really interested in selling SYM's
the importer is not - ignores questions, wrong info on site (remember they had a Kymco downtown pic
on the new Maxsym page!)


But I do think SYM gets some unfair flak at times, especially before 2008 mention SYM you'd be met
with cheap chinese junk, can't get parts, unreliable, stick to jap/Italian remarks. Even now the Maxsym has
4000mile service intervals and is cheaper than the Burgman people won't buy it, they go for the more known badges like Piaggio and Suzuki. Yet ask the (ex)owners of SYM's and there pretty much happy with there SYM's. But like Data mentioned, you need a decent SYM dealer near to you. But if my local dealer also solded Suzuki's and Piaggio's, out of
an Burgman (to common for my likes, expensive) X10 (Wow... Piaggio's got a new Maxi coming out get over it already!) and Max-sym (not a Burgman or Piaggio)... I'd go for the Maxsym.

[barryG]

One things for sure, now that Suzuki have hiked the price of the 400Z to a ridiculous level, it will be interesting to see how much the Maxsym 400 with ABS will be. Bear in mind the Maxsym without is £4999, same as the X10 with.... it will be a brave SYM to raise the price above its current level. If they do, then the Maxsym will be confined to history in the UK.... after all, why pay more when the X10 offers it all for less with longer servicing. And, if the quality is as good as the latest Beverly it will equal if not better the Maxsym.

[bornagainbiker]

Yep, Piaggio have thrown down the gauntlet. 'Follow this if you can!'
I 'think' I reported that the Maxsym 400i would be +£500 with ABS? So its more expensive than the X10 but with a bigger engine and back rest.

The rear of the T&g states that the 'new' Sym Joymax 300efi is £4299. However it also sates that the Sym GTS Eco 300 is £3299!!, where the RRP is £3899 on Sym's web site, unless they have a heads-up and the GTS is being reduced to make way for the new model in August? But looking at past T&G issues it's always full of errors and not just typos. E.G. In the May/June issue 86, Iggy reviewed the Kymco Downtown 125i, he stated its ONLY £2299!. You may think well its a typo, it should be £3299, but he continues to report that it's £1600 cheaper than the Yamaha Xmax 125 at £3899, so he has it in his mind that it's only £2299 with that comment. Surely as a professional journalist who lives scooters you must question the price being £1600 cheaper than a rival! I did and so did many others as they issued an apology in the latest issue 87.
Until we actually eventually see true manufacturer issued figures on their web sites then most of these independent journalistic reports are just hearsay and maybe. It causes a forum discussion thou.

[Data]

I also take their road tests/reviews with a pinch of salt (the T&G ones). They make such daft comments. In the Maxsym 400 final review they state the top speed is 95mph, but with some downhill assistance! What's the point of that and what revs was it showing? What's the top speed on the flat? They go on to say it cruises comfortably at 86mph! Whats the point of saying that? Who in their right minds will treat their shiny new scooter like that. It's my guess it will be doing lots of revs and the throttle will be wide open. I know they want to 'fully test' the products, but there are better more legal ways. It emptied it's fuel tank in 110miles at one point Mau says, no doubt doing that speed. Although to be fair he did say it could be very economical too, and quotes some other figures, coming close to the Burgman 400 fuel economy. As Mac says, they go on to compare it to the Majesty, but show the Burgman 400z abs photo leaving you confused as the price they quote for the Majesty is the same as the Burgman so it's not easy to define what model they are talking about.The X10 test is better I feel but Harriet clearly weighs no more than a piece of A4 paper and when giving information about performance we again don't really get enough info about how it goes. Maybe it's the engineer in me craving more accurate information. Bike mags seem to generally manage it. T&G can be interesting but I think's it's tests are somewhat written for children at times with far too many errors showing how poorly it's put together and edited.

[macamxthe1st]

Had a look at the X10 in the "Flesh" yesterday and side by side with the Burgman, for me I preferred the look of the Burgman. Now looks/style is a completely subjective matter but for me the Burgman looks more "Handsome" than the X10. This was only a static look around and cracking bike it may be with many great features but the front end looks to me as if it is slightly "Swollen". Well thats the short list now down to one and guess which one that is then.

Geoff

[Gerard C]

Just been for a ride out with Fingers and I think his 400 Sym is incredible now its run in properly.

[Data]

Funny you should say that. I've had a ride on one too just last week. I've been away for a few days and had the chance to ride one and compare it to my Burgman 400z. All I can say is it was brilliant. It went so well in every respect. The one I rode had 1500 miles on the clock. My Burgman has quite a bit more than that now and my Burgman had the edge on acceleration etc due to those extra miles no doubt. But really, you could almost imagine you were riding a Burgman 400. It was that close. Well done Sym.

[anonstarter]

Fascinating read and I'm looking forward to reading Fingers Maxsym 400 review!
I know dealer location is important, as is servicing, but for the purpose of perspective, I've had to drive a car over 200 miles to the nearest dealer for its annual service.