2013 Honda NSS300 Forza

[gn2]

After all, the only difference they mention is that power characteristics have been modified.

Does the SH300 engine have roller rocker arms and an offset cylinder?
Does the dirt bike engine have a CVT and associated casings like the SH300 engine or does it just share some components with it?

[Data]

Here's an extract from a Honda news announcement:

"The NSS300 FORZA's 279cc, liquid-cooled SOHC four-valve engine is based on that of the well-established SH300i, with power characteristics tuned to deliverexcellent fuel economy plus an entertaining ride at low, mid and high rpm. It has a bore and stroke of 72mm x 68.5mm, and compression ratio of 10.5:1. A roller type rocker arm, plain journal crank bearings and sealed crankcases deliver long-term reliability; oil capacity is 1.7-litres.

n.b "is based on" not "is the same"

Would Honda design a brand new engine from scratch, or heavily modify one, when they already had one to hand?? I doubt it. They even nicked the SH engine from a motocross bike in the first place to avoid designing a new one. I strongly suspect that 'based on' is marketing speak for 'slightly different' ! After all, the only difference they mention is that power characteristics have been modified.

If the new Honda has a 5mm offset cylinder design, then it'll be considered a virtually new engine, but based on the older version. Ok so there would be no need to redesign some components from an older engine but to take advantage of the offset design fully, new parts will be needed, and it will have completely new engine crankcases, and from what Honda are saying it has very different cams, rockers, and probably valves, piston & rings etc. I note plain bearing in the bottom end. Don't know if the old engine had those. Nice design though and virtually all new petrol engines will be offset design within five years.

Nice!

[Data]

This posted in error, a simple double click!

[StephenC]

Here's an extract from a Honda news announcement:

"The NSS300 FORZA's 279cc, liquid-cooled SOHC four-valve engine is based on that of the well-established SH300i, with power characteristics tuned to deliverexcellent fuel economy plus an entertaining ride at low, mid and high rpm. It has a bore and stroke of 72mm x 68.5mm, and compression ratio of 10.5:1. A roller type rocker arm, plain journal crank bearings and sealed crankcases deliver long-term reliability; oil capacity is 1.7-litres.

n.b "is based on" not "is the same"

Would Honda design a brand new engine from scratch, or heavily modify one, when they already had one to hand?? I doubt it. They even nicked the SH engine from a motocross bike in the first place to avoid designing a new one. I strongly suspect that 'based on' is marketing speak for 'slightly different' ! After all, the only difference they mention is that power characteristics have been modified.

Or it may be that the next Sh300 will get this engine? That would make economic sense.

Especially since I read "well established sh300" as meaning the "now quite old Sh300"

[StephenC]

As for whether a £4000 Kymco Downtown or a £4300 Sym Joymax with no ABS and a kph speedo are better vfm than a £4500 Honda with ABS and a proper speedo, well lets just wait and see what the sales figures look like by the end of the year. IMO the Kymco and Sym should be priced closer to the Daelim S3.

The French are getting ABS on their Syms

The Sym GTS 300 ABS is officially available in the network of the Taiwanese brand. Originally scheduled for March 2013, the ABS version (Bosch brand without coupling front / rear) is the previously announced price of € 4,999, or € 400 more than the standard. After Maxsym 400 ABS in July 2012, the Sym GTS 300 2012 is the second Sym to adopt the ABS, continuing the upscale (and power!) Brand. Thus rigged, swift and rigorous GTS 300 ABS should give a hard time to aging Kymco Dink Street 300 ABS. More instructive still be meeting with the new Honda Forza 300 (ABS as standard) and the reference X-Max 250 ABS. As for the Sym GTS 125, it will have to wait until September 2013 to receive ABS. As often in Taiwanese, the big guns are served first.
Sym GTS 300 ABS: Price: € 4,999

NOTE: The Forza is 300euros more.

[gn2]

If Sym brought their ABS Joymax here, chances are it would be the same price or more expensive than the Forza.
With the Forza at £4499 the Joymax is far too expensive at £4300
One good thing about the Sym is that they have screw and locknut valve adjusters, I don't know what type the Forza has, but if its shims that's not so good for the home mechanic.

Popped into my local Honda dealer today.
They will be getting a Forza demonstrator in sometime around August and they have already sold one.

[gn2]

Found a link to the owner's manual: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0BwmYWlz ... edit?pli=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Service interval is 8,000 miles with valve clearance and belt change both at 16,000 mile intervals.

[davidw]

Latest twist to the Honda Forza GB launch is that Honda have asked dealers to provide them with proof of intended purchase from customers in order to get there stock models supplied? Sounds a bit unusual to say the least.
Its looking like September when they arrive so I have been told?

[gn2]

Sounds like supply problems, or rather popularity problems.
Looks to me like Honda can't build them fast enough at the moment.

[terryvanman]

went to scooter london yesterday, was told they might have a demo in next week, ha ha we shall see