New Sym??

[smeghead]

I agree with GN2. No one is suggesting that the product is poor but any 'new' product introduced into any sector needs to prove itself against established and trusted brands. A few hundred quid difference is not enough of an incentive for most people to chose a relatively unknown brand.

[jamie]

It may help posters to understand the difference between China and Taiwan if they took a look at say the wiki pages.

Taiwan was occupied by the Japanese for 50 years in recent history - this has had an immense impact on the Taiwanese infatuation with quality, reliability and longevity.

The founder of SYM was a great friend of Soichiro Honda which led to a partnership for a great many years resulting in SYM actually producing Honda Motorcycles/Scooters and cars like the N600, CRX, Civic, and Accord.

Many of the ultra modern high tech electronic factories in China are actually owned and controlled by Taiwanese - the factories producing many of the Apple products are owned by Foxconn a Taiwanese company that started life producing keyboard and mouse connectors for almost every PC manufacturer in the world and went on to manufacturing complete motherboards etc.

ASUS, Ritek, Foxconn are all Taiwanese companies, so too is LG (or Lucky Goldstar !)

So, before 'tarring' Taiwan with a brush and inferring that the produce of Taiwan is 'cheap and shoddy', take an in depth look at the country, its history and the companies founded there!

You will be amazed, I was first time I went out there.....

SYMUK

you are pissing in the wind mate unless it has a Japanese badge to quite a few on here its shyte ...... most seem to think that sym are in some way inferior to jap brands when in truth... Honda have been churning the same silver wing for over ten years ,, the burgman is relatively unchanged since 07 .. the pcx 125 is built in the arse end of the back of beyond to a very poor standard .. the forza isn't much better .
the game has moved on with the kymco downtown the max sym .and the x10 350 and the japs are now playing catch up

[MrGrumpy]

Oh dear I hate to tell you this but Twain is very much not part of the peoples Republic of China.

The Republic of China is the country located on the island of Taiwan.

Wonderfully confusing. The pre Communist Chinese leaders fled to Taiwan, and founded the 'Republic of China' there, whilst claiming they were the true rulers of all of China, whilst on the mainland, the (communist) People's Republic of China was created - who of course, claim that Taiwan is part of mainland China!

Taiwan has been a very interesting case. A few decades ago it was rather backward, doing basic cheap manufacturing for Japanese countries, whilst it has developed to be a technology leader in things like phones. And we know that some of scooters are well up to class standards.

[spaceprobe]

The point is I don't understand why there is an assumption that because it is made in Taiwan it should be bargain basement. We have seem with examples like Kia when they up their game sadly the prices go with them. It is correct that in the UK we tend to pay a lot more for items than the rest of Europe (goodness knows why) and don't get me started on the US, just look at how much cheaper the BMW scooter is over there I believe it works out cheaper that the Burgman 650. Perhaps we should get in the habit of popping to France to buy our scooters. Frankie want to produce the definitive guide to doing it? (its a thought)

[Data]

Comparing prices from one country to the next can be very confusing. In the States, the actual price they pay in many states is much more than the advertised price. So although the BMW scoots sound cheaper over there, they are in fact about the same price as we pay here as the purchaser has to pay tax on the bike after purchase which is not shown in the advertised price. Also they pay other fees and taxes on top that are fairly hefty. So 'out the door' prices as you often hear from our American cousins are not always the end of it.

Regarding pricing of the 600i, I think it's priced about right. It is after all, the latest technological offering from an advanced company. Because it's a single cylinder engine it's going to be a bit less to buy than the now long in the tooth but still very good Honda that some would say is overpriced. It made back it's tooling and development costs years ago. Sym as a brand is well known throughout Europe as a quality brand these days. It's earned a high quality reputation for it's bikes. Pricing of products too can in itself be a complicated business. It depends on many factors. I know, because last year I had to work on development costs of a new engine and it's not as straight forward as just saying we'll sell it at this or that price. Where you source your raw materials, how you produce it etc etc plays a big part. The exchange rate is an immense influence on what we pay for bikes from Japan and Taiwan, and other places too of course.

On the point about quality. Britain has made some of the worst cars and bikes in the world that didn't even come close to today's actual 'poor' quality Chinese (not Taiwanese) offerings in the way they performed and lasted. We got ourselves one of the worst reputations for building cars and bike of anywhere. I used to work on them too. They broke down regularly and were well overpriced. Look what happened to our industry!

[SkuTorr]

Okay. For over 15 years I had a company named Austin-Healey Motor Works out here in California, and worked-on/repaired/restored hundreds of Big Healeys and TR-6's..TR-5's to you. Once they became "collectable" and not every-day drivers anymore, all my repair business, especially collision, disappeared. It became a downsized company, doing restorations and associated maintenance.

SOURCING restoration parts from England was an ongoing NIGHTMARE. Spotty supply, horrible parts fill rates, suppliers who didn't seem to care to SELL you anything, and reproduction quality that was CRAP, or, when outsourced to friggin' India, WORSE CRAP...

Then, suddenly, everything CHANGED. Almost overnight quality not only MATCHED OEM, but if it was a stupidly designed part to begin with, the restoration piece came in BETTER, with better materials, machining, and design. What miracle occurred???

THEY BEGAN TO MAKE THE PARTS IN TAIWAN.

[michaelphillips]

Piaggio put a nice stainless steel one on the x10 500

yep it looks like my stainless steel exhaust and thats on my 2004 model year which still looks mint 9 years later, its bloody heavy though

ok , i may have missed this ... so whens the launch date.. has it been set in stone yet .. sos if missed it

[Data]

Sku, that sadly was many peoples experiences of our union run country of the time. In typical fashion we blamed the Japanese for flooding our country with highly reliable and affordable Nissans, Datsuns and Toyota's for our car industry failing. Just like we did with our motorcycle industry. Things are much better now, we actually produce quality with the best of them. And our customer service is second to none. We get it now! Oh...we had the TR6 over here too. Worked on many myself and got to know all it's quirks. Nice motor when it went ok and better than a Stag.

Back to the bike. Taiwan is a great place to do business. Sym and Kymco are excellent brands. The challenge for Sym, and Kymco too, is to make the brand bigger over here in 'urop'. Selling at very cheap prices is not the answer, and will harm the brand, and only adding to a perceived poor quality image by some. However, the quality is not in question, it's brilliant and is proven. The price needs to be competitive, and as you can see from anonstarters earlier post in the price comparison picture, it is. Yet some people are never happy, even with it's big price advantage. Even with less power, but less weight, it will perform no doubt just like the Silverwing with similar handling and probably much better economy. It will outrun my 400z abs for sure. I know from riding the 400i Maxsym that it is similar in feel to my Burgman. The 600i won't come to any harm if that is still the case for it. I note it is only slightly heavier than the 400i. That will be a major advantage for it, and anyone buying one. So there is no doubt in my mind that the 600i will be worth the wait and we will probably all be wooed by it. But we must wait for the road test to see that side of it. Can't wait!

[gn2]

If the new Sym Joymax 300 is priced correctly for the UK market at £4300+otr why is a Daelim S3 a thousand pounds cheaper...?
If the new Sym Joymax 125 is priced correctly for the UK market at £3499+otr why is a TGB X-Motion almost nine hundred pounds cheaper?

[SYMUK]

While some of the products coming out of Taiwan are excellent, not all are.
In my opinion Sym scooters are very much overpriced in the UK.
Sym Joymax £3933 in France but in the UK £4400
Maxsym 400 £4273 in France but in the UK £5100
Get the prices down to where they should be and things may improve.
Leave the prices as they are.... nothing will change.

http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/sy ... _400i#!tax" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.howmanyleft.co.uk/vehicle/sy ... _300i#!tax" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The MaxSym 400 in France is £4750. France have toll roads therefore our otr costs are unfairly included in the UK price!

The real difference is therefore nearer to £250 more in UK than France - BUT our Gallic colleagues DO NOT OFFER 0% Finance or Free/Subsidised Insurance etc

Thanks
SYMUK