Burgman 400 & 650 new models 2013

[charles1976]

I guess its t max all the way !

[irev]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18017591

Even car makers recognise smaller is better. We don't have a need for a SigFiddy replacement. Unless it's a 400 twin thats 50 kilos lighter, with a nice little turbo engine, boosting torque, not horsepower.

Alternatively, don't ask the motorcycle morons to make the maxis.

Instead give it to the car division - they'll make it lighter, more frugal, with better aerodynamics, won't feel any need to obey the motorcycle `rules` so it'll have in-maxi-entertainment as standard, adjustable seating, air conditioning and self-deploying stands , self-levelling suspension and the only forks onboard will be the ones you need for the picnic table you can get in the boot...

[MrGrumpy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18017591

Even car makers recognise smaller is better. ..

Yeah....but all these tiny engines don't actually go very well.....despite having 120bhp, the Focus is a right sluggard.

[Bluebottle]

Suzuki like Honda has little grasp of the UK scooter market.

I think they understand it pretty well.
A runaway success of a scooter would sell maybe 2000 units in the UK ?
Nobody is going to bother designing something to chase those sorts of figures.

Suzuki's annual figures for the whole of Eueope were something like 102,000,

Compare that to their figures for:
Asia 662,000
China 1,585,000

We are just too insignificant to matter in the global scheme of things.
We get the leftovers from other strategies

[wozza]

Surely the 2 new low priced 700s with good mpg recently released by Honda show that Honda are starting to improve things..

[gn2]

The NC S/X is a step in the right direction, but nowhere near a big enough one.
The 270 crank engine is like a bag of spanners, there's no need for overcomplex linked single shock suspension, the final drive is a fecking chain instead of a shaft, the valve adjustment isn't automatic, the seat is small and thin, it could be much deeper but for the design following the modern trend of having a huge gap of fresh air above the rear wheel.
Nice effort Honda, but could do so much better.

[irev]

[Bluebottle]

The NC S/X is a step in the right direction......a huge gap of fresh air above the rear wheel

"Sporty" rear end styling on scoots does nothing for me either, give me a huge boot like the "Honda Pacific Coast" any day of the week (but that was a HRA design not Honda M/C).

Are you saying specific bits of the NC S/X are a step in the right direction or is it just the mpg generally?

.. they'll make it lighter, more frugal, with better aerodynamics, ........

Yes please.
It gives us a bit of a dilemna though, the quickest way to make a scooter lighter is to make a bike instead.
Having said that I'm not wedded to the step through, just the internal storage that comes with it.

I am all for dropping convention and starting with a clean sheet too but I don't really want to loose the visibility, conspicuity and ergenomic advantages of my AN400's seat height.

[gn2]

Are you saying specific bits of the NC S/X are a step in the right direction or is it just the mpg generally?

For me the "step" is towards building a modern practical standard roadbike.
As I see it, the big plus points for the NC S/X are the fuel consumption, longer service interval, onboard storage and price.
These are certainly very important but Honda could have done so much better by incorporating existing proven technology to further reduce the maintenance requirements and improve comfort.
Even simple things like tyre size, there is absolutely no need whatsoever for such wide and high speed rating tyres, narrower ones with a speed rating matching the bike's true abilites and intended usage would surely be cheaper when it comes to replacing them.
The things I would like to see in the NC S/X are a smoother running engine with rubber mountings to eliminate vibration, a shaft final drive for reduced maintenance, a centre stand for practicality, a bigger, deeper and comfier seat, bigger storage compartment and hydraulic automatic valve adjustment.
And as for the Integra, let's not even go there, It's just a complete and utter fail.

[gn2]

So if Honda got it's act together and sorted out the NC Honda range would you buy one?

Honda are not going to change the NC enough though, it would require too many major changes.
I have had an NC700X DCT on loan for a full day and having ridden it and experienced that engine there is absolutely no way I would consider buying one.
Others may enjoy the 270 crank experience, I thought it was bloody awful.