Piaggio X 10

[gn2]

But instructor was telling about right braking balance...

In which case he was talking shite.
Both brakes together in the dry, rear brake slightly before the front in the wet.
In he case of combined brakes (as fitted to many scooters) its all academic as the rear brake lever operates the rear and front together....

[Bluebottle]

I think that would earn you a fail these days. There will be a specific question on it in the theory too.

As far as I know current teaching is:
Front brake just ahead of rear, apply progressively; more pressure on front in good conditions, more even pressure in wet. For low speed manouvres use rear brake only.

The linked braking thing depends on the manufacturer because they use different systems (dual circuit on front lever only, rear lever, mixed piston balance etc) so there is t a blanket answer, it depends on the system you have.

[gn2]

True that there is no simple single answer but it remains wrong that someone would be failed for following the instructions in a current motorcycle user's manual.

[frankiej1949]

Yes, Piaggio recommend using combined front and rear for 80% (left hand) of braking and the front only (right hand) for the last 20% for the X10.

[SpikeOne]

The memsahib failed because she applied both brakes at the same time!
Instant fail...

What total aund utter crap.
How the F can using the brakes correctly get you a fail?

Because you are expected to put a pause between the front going on and the back.
Say your full name between the brakes, (apparently), and that'll be about right.
If you press the back before the front or don't leave enough of a time gap, that'll be the end of your test. In her case, she realised that she was about to do it wrong so she visually removed her foot sideways from the pedal, and they failed her because they said she no longer had control.

Apparently it's because pulling in the the front brake hard has a tendency to take the grip off the back wheel due to the weight being shifted forward during braking. When this happens, there is more chance of a rear wheel skid if the brake is already on, so you're supposed to leave it until some of the speed's been removed, which increases the grip on the back wheel again.

No, I'm not sure I believe it either, but there you are.

Personally, I try and balance it out, but with the braking on the front of the Downtown being noticeably less than the back, if I had to jam them on hard without thinking, I'm not sure that I wouldn't skid anyway. And I have no idea how you are supposed to pass if you have linked brakes!

[MrGrumpy]

[

Because you are expected to put a pause between the front going on and the back.
Say your full name between the brakes, (apparently), and that'll be about right.

Well....on all the courses I've been on, and all the books I've read, I've never come across this idea before! What I've been told is that the idea is to pull the front brakes on gently initially (to compress the forks) and then squeeze harder. Almost all the stopping effect is done by the front brake anyway, so it probably doesn't matter much what you do with the back! If you are braking really hard, the back wheel could leave the ground anyway!

[Bluebottle]

True that there is no simple single answer.....

Simple single answer = front then back

The answer you gave will get the candidate marked down in the theory and/or practical tests.

What I was saying about linked systems is that it is unwise to make a blanket statement (lever x does y). They aren't all the same as your Honda and the answer is still front then rear.

[gn2]

They aren't all the same as your Honda

I knew that but the key is in the word "linked"
How can a candidate on a bike with linked brakes apply the front before the rear if the front is linked to the rear?

and the answer is still front then rear.

The answer may be that for current UK test purposes but it is a complete and utter load of bollocks.

[pikey]

Whats the problem you dont brake front let off then back brake, you add back brake so all linked brakes do is back brake and a bit more front

[gn2]

Whats the problem

The problem is that using the brakes correctly in line with manufacturers recommendations will get you failed.