Good thinking horobags that could be a point but like they say a lot are running ok and you only hear about the ones with the problems.

gn2 wrote:Think you might mean 4000 miles?

Lol, lets hope so!

It was the same thing when the R1200gs came out,,,problems problems, my 05 bike had a new final drive at 300 miles then the interweb went mad with all the things that were going wrong with the bikes, i bought as spares all the bits that were reported to be faulty...went on a little ride with some mates to the eastern block countries and did 8860 miles in ten weeks....never missed a beat so at 40,000 i bought another, MK2 version but not the same feel as the old one so bought another big burger

Considered a C600. My heart though told me to get a mark 3 Tmax... Good call!

I got my MK 3 Tmax when I saw that they wouldn't be available in the US again; dealers had about 18 2009's, 2 2010's and 2 2011's in the entire COUNTRY as New Old Stock. Couldn't ever figure out how to market them. Got it new with $2,100 OFF the original list price.

In the back of my mind I wondered if I hadn't jumped the gun, and should have hung onto my 2009 Majesty 400 a bit longer, and had purchased the C600Sport. (Though it would have been TWICE the PRICE, at least...)

After a heads-up comparison with my (Dr. Pulley & HH pad equipped) MK3 in faster YELLOW, I knew I made the right call. The BMW was heavier, slower off the line, didn't brake as well, came with a FUNKY cheap dry-clutch, instead of a proper wet-clutch, and wasn't as nimble. I can adjust my GIVI Airflo windscreen at speed; you have to PARK the BMW to move the screen. At 80mph+ it was faster. Big Deal, so is a Burgman 650...

To keep an eye on things I joined the U.S. BMW Scooter Forum and have been monitoring the Italian one, as well. It's turned into a COMPLETE cluster-fuck in the U.S., with NO Dealer support for issues that are KNOWN in Europe and are fixed by the dealer/factory.

Case in point; the timing chain tensioners are failing on the BMW scoots, they get loud at idle after some 6-10,000km. Dealers in Europe replace them. Dealer in U.S. said it was just valve noise, wait till it warms-up. So the owner did, and at 10,000 miles the CHAIN sheared-off, bent valves and HOLED a piston. Now it's been at the dealer, still under warrantee mind you, for 65 DAYS, and BMW now is refusing to take his calls or answer his e-mails. He's been passed from one person to another with NO resolution.

(Then again, Yamaha is sort of the same; they warrantee and replace the infamous "Tmax Fever" defective fuel pumps in Europe, even AFTER the 2-year warrantee period. In the U.S. they "never heard of any problem, ever...")

I feel even MORE fortunate to have snagged my Tmax, as you folks on THAT side of the POND get ALL the Maxi-scooters. We get the Burgman 400/650, OLD Silverwing, OLD Majesty 400. That's It.

BUT, we have deep-fried EVERYTHING!

Hi SkuTorr, Just to say thanks for introducing me to the work Clusterfuck, I Googled it and it is now now parked in my memory banks and will be retrieved when appropriate.
You will have probably heard the phrase 'if it aint broke, don't mend it' well maybe some manufacturers should heed this advice.

SkuTorr wrote: I can adjust my GIVI Airflo windscreen at speed; you have to PARK the BMW to move the screen!

Don't try the mk4 Tmax then (if they ever get to the states), to adjust the screen, not only do you have to Park, but you have to get the tools out as well! The C600 screen looks like quite a good idea in comparison!
Not sure I'd like to adjust any screen (except electrically) at speed...too distracting.

SkuTorr wrote: The BMW was heavier, slower off the line, didn't brake as well, came with a FUNKY cheap dry-clutch, instead of a proper wet-clutch, and wasn't as nimble.

Of course, you are entitled to your opinion. I came from a TMAX Mk3 to the BMW C600 Sport. Much as I liked the TMAX, I think the BMW is better, certainly for me. As I have said before the TMAX is the better all-rounder. BMW, slower off the line? No. It brakes better than a TMAX for sure and is just as nimble once moving. The TMAX feels lighter and less planted at speed and in corners. The BMW has adjustable rear suspension. It is better equipped. The clutch is indeed not as good as the wet one on the TMAX but it is remarkably well behaved and controllable.

I hope the reliability concerns are unfounded or will get sorted by BMW. We'll just have to wait and see. I'm still unsure whether I would make the same decision again, but one thing remains certain. The BMW has a wonderful engine noise and power delivery, the TMAX engine is a bit boring to be honest. Faithful but boring.

Looking at the forum it seems the Tmax has it's fair share of problems too, and they've had four generations to sort out the teething problems. Same goes for the Burgmans (clutch problems with the 400s and belt worries with the 650) and some Piaggios/Aprilias (e.g. the need to replace brake pumps/iffy electrics etc.). All these companies have been making scooters for donkeys years now so I'd judge them more harshly than a newcomer to the market (forgetting the silly roofed venture).

Only time will tell if the BMWs have long term reliability, I wouldn't judge the two designs based only on the first few batches of scoots and personally I'm not surprised there have been some niggles identifies, after all it's a brand new design.

If it were me and I had the dosh, I'd be buying a C 650 GT without any fears over reliability as I'm sure any major problems would come to light within the warranty and be dealt with.

DougL wrote:The BMW has a wonderful engine noise and power delivery, the TMAX engine is a bit boring to be honest. Faithful but boring.

Yes - the engine noise was the thing that really did impress me with the C600!!! However, the smoothness of the TMax (at low revs - the BM is OK at higher revs) is a good compensation. For me the mk2 Tmax made the best noise, a deep but smooth drone which I likened to a WW2 fighter plane or something. I loved hearing it idle when started from cold - an amazingly smooth electric motor like noise. They gave the mk3 a rather harsher exhaust note which was rather wearing, whilst they've somehow made the mk4 do a hint of Harley 'putter-putter' burble, which I'm not wildly keen on, though its not a nuisance.