SYMUK wrote:
I find the disdain from one two wheel riding preference to another a little confusing - with the possible historical divide between Mods and Rockers!

We should concentrate on two wheels vs four - not squabble within the two wheel fraternity!

Anyway, mine is bigger than yours!

Cheers
SYMUK

Excellent comment and an important point well made.

All I have to ask is if Ago passed you any numbers from his little black book, he never seems to struggle for attractive female company!

Data wrote:You're joking right! You don't know the answer? Clue...have you never actually made a proper comparison between a Sym and the other brands you mention?
Freight costs can be massively different too from country to country.

TGB = Taiwan Golden Bee. The X-motion is a Sym with different bodywork.
Daelim are the biggest selling manufacturer in Korea by a huge margin, they manufacture componentry for all sorts of things, including Jaguar and Audi.
Daelim are easily the equal of Sym.
Freight cost for TGB will be the same as for Sym surely and Korea is roughly the same distance from the UK as Taiwan.

Sym pricing is currently too high.
That's my opinion, it isn't going to change.

Over Here the Harley isn't a bike...it's a LIFESTYLE STATEMENT! I might be an overworked accountant during the week, but come Sunday I'm out dressed like a Gay Pirate with skulls, studs and chrome everywhere. I've installed the world's MOST F#$%$ING LOUD straight-pipe exhaust causing birds to drop DEAD off of trees as I pass, squinting into the airstream protected by a pair of sunglasses, do-rag and chrome pie tin balanced upon my head, as I clutch my Ape Hanger eye-level handlebars and hope I don't hit any difficult corners or have to maneuver suddenly. But I think I look SO COOL!

Ask how it impresses my wife...she sees these guys ride by and says "well, there's another guy who won't get laid anytime soon..."

SkuTorr wrote:Over Here the Harley isn't a bike...it's a LIFESTYLE STATEMENT! I might be an overworked accountant during the week, but come Sunday I'm out dressed like a Gay Pirate with skulls, studs and chrome everywhere.

Ask how it impresses my wife...she sees these guys ride by and says "well, there's another guy who won't get laid anytime soon..."

Now that did make me laugh.

gn2 wrote:

Data wrote:You're joking right! You don't know the answer? Clue...have you never actually made a proper comparison between a Sym and the other brands you mention?
Freight costs can be massively different too from country to country.

TGB = Taiwan Golden Bee. The X-motion is a Sym with different bodywork.
Daelim are the biggest selling manufacturer in Korea by a huge margin, they manufacture componentry for all sorts of things, including Jaguar and Audi.
Daelim are easily the equal of Sym.
Freight cost for TGB will be the same as for Sym surely and Korea is roughly the same distance from the UK as Taiwan.

Sym pricing is currently too high.
That's my opinion, it isn't going to change.

You always have an interesting viewpoint. I've a good take on the other brands you mention. Daelim in particular are well known to me through my past job. But in the bike world, are not comparable to Sym technically or in overall quality. Although the gap is narrowing on that. No one would argue that they are not a good bike, but not quite in the same class as Sym. It's the same for TGB and who don't have the manufacturing costs of Sym with the X-motion. It's a well known way of producing a cheap bike. Just order someone else's engine, and sometimes the frame, and your near enough good to go. Producing engines is massively expensive, both development and production, plus the ongoing productions costs which often rise as the engine continues production (not always falling as many believe) due to tooling and other costs.You appear to know nothing about the actual way machines are marketed. Marketing to the different segments of the bike market calls for particular pricing strategies. It's not just about costs. Sym have placed the 600i just about right in most peoples eyes to allow it to get a good take off. Often Geograhics are not the main factor governing shipping costs, but it does have a large bearing on the matter. It was cheaper to send one of our development engines to Australia for analysis last year than to Germany by some 40%. There are differing taxations and shipping costs at different borders and of course the shipping companies all charge differently. Exchange rates vary. It would have been largely the same whether we shipped just the one or two hundred engines. The Maxsym 600i (the bike we are talking about) is going to be the cheapest by some way, large quality maxi on the market in this country and you STILL want it cheaper! Your opinion which you are of course perfectly entitled to, isn't going to change because you need to do more research to understand how things work in the real world.

Data wrote:You appear to know nothing about the actual way machines are marketed. Marketing to the different segments of the bike market calls for particular pricing strategies.

Your opinion which you are of course perfectly entitled to, isn't going to change because you need to do more research to understand how things work in the real world.

What I know is that actual real world sales figures of Sym maxi scooters in the UK remain dismally poor at the current prices.
This is an indisputable fact, not my opinion.

Time will tell if Sym have the pricing of the Maxsym 600 set correctly for the real world or not.

For me, until Sym have a scoot with decent service intervals - 6000 miles+ - it's not a practical option regardless of anything else.

I do hope they do well as we need more successful competition.

Also thanks to SYMUK who has responded well to a fair amount of heat on here!

melpotter wrote:

SkuTorr wrote:Over Here the Harley isn't a bike...it's a LIFESTYLE STATEMENT! I might be an overworked accountant during the week, but come Sunday I'm out dressed like a Gay Pirate with skulls, studs and chrome everywhere.

Ask how it impresses my wife...she sees these guys ride by and says "well, there's another guy who won't get laid anytime soon..."

Now that did make me laugh.

+2

SkuTorr wrote:Over Here the Harley isn't a bike...it's a LIFESTYLE STATEMENT! I might be an overworked accountant during the week, but come Sunday I'm out dressed like a Gay Pirate with skulls, studs and chrome everywhere. I've installed the world's MOST F#$%$ING LOUD straight-pipe exhaust causing birds to drop DEAD off of trees as I pass, squinting into the airstream protected by a pair of sunglasses, do-rag and chrome pie tin balanced upon my head, as I clutch my Ape Hanger eye-level handlebars and hope I don't hit any difficult corners or have to maneuver suddenly..."

anonstarter wrote:

Yes...well that the sort of thing I just don't get. Yes, I know its at the extreme looney end of the cruiser field, but I just don't understand that segment or why someone would think thats interesting or amusing or cool or whatever. As I said, I can understand the sportsbike mentality, even if I don't want to go there!

gn2 wrote:

Data wrote:You appear to know nothing about the actual way machines are marketed. Marketing to the different segments of the bike market calls for particular pricing strategies.

Your opinion which you are of course perfectly entitled to, isn't going to change because you need to do more research to understand how things work in the real world.

What I know is that actual real world sales figures of Sym maxi scooters in the UK remain dismally poor at the current prices.
This is an indisputable fact, not my opinion.

Time will tell if Sym have the pricing of the Maxsym 600 set correctly for the real world or not.

Excellent, and goes some way to illustrating differences in buying from a variety of countries.

Fortunately, I am also involved with the import and distribution of Daelim in the UK and there are good reasons for the price differential

1) Goods from Taiwan and China attract an 8% import duty

2) Goods from Korea have Zero % duty

3) Shipping rates $500 per container less from Korea (34 JoyMax or MaxSym per container)

SYM over 125cc have three year warranty not two as is the case with Daelim

No promotional Finance or Insurance with Daelim

The Daelim product is good - but not as good as SYM, nor is their model portfolio anywhere near as broad - and I have no reason to be biased!!!!

Do you not think it a strange coincidence why SYM and Kymco are similarly priced!

The TGB is powered by a SYM motor as are several of the TGB models (SYM use TGB to manufacture some of the CVT components for SYM models...)

The TGB is however not in the same league as the New Joymax

SYM produce complete machines for Peugeot (who charge £200 per unit more than SYM in UK!!!!!)

Kymco will produce a machine for Kawasaki and that will be more expensive than the Kymco.....

Ha, with a SYM, the quality remains long after the price has been forgotten!

Thanks
SYMUK