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Re: New Sym??
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:37 am
by anonstarter
SYMUK wrote:UPDATE
SYM Technical Dept have extended service intervals, but has not filtered officially down through the ranks and into print as yet....
Extended service intervals apply to 250cc and above - now 6,000km
Watch this space - I have posted this indication previously - and reconfirmed this morning, please be patient and I will have official line shortly.
400cc and 600cc motors use paper filters.
Thanks
SYMUK
Great news!
SYMUK wrote:To make life easy, maintenance schedules will be amended ONLY for models above 250cc and registered from 1st January 2014. Prior to this date, existing schedules will apply.
So, being pedantic, if someone was to buy a (263cc) 300i Citycom or GTS300i after January 2014 they could have their Scoots 'serviced' every 6,000km and still be within the 3 year warranty terms. Could that same schedule be applied to any 263cc SYM Scoot - maybe even a 5 year old 300i?
SYMUK wrote:Scooters by nature of the mode of transport generally do many shorter journeys than a car. Engines often do not come up to full working temperatures and run for a sufficient period to evaporate water condensation within the engine. This can then emulsify and no longer work as oil should.
It is well known that a sales reps car sitting on a motorway for long periods and covering enormous mileages have engines in better condition than those covering a third of the mileage but more short journeys!
Service intervals are not only determined by oil changes, however a well looked after frequently serviced unit will last longer under normal use. It is also known that a larger oil capacity reduces service intervals - the oil is not working as hard, the workload shared across more molecules of oil!
Unfortunately statistical data indicates that lower than 250cc units require a more stringent service routine - generally speaking it is the lower capacity units that fail more often through negligence - Maxi Scooters generally speaking are better looked after by their owners..... [Data for EU that is!]
I generally do a 11 mile commute - 9 miles of this is on a 70mph dual carriageway - which the Citycom is more than capable of. Homeward bound I have a very short 1 minute ride to that dual carriageway. As you might guess the engine is cold for the first few miles/minutes until it warms up. I do have a nagging doubt that that doesn't do lower capacity engines any long-term favours. I'm wondering if the lower revs of a larger engine might be better?
SYMUK wrote:Servicing is not only about extending the longevity and reliability (and lower warranty claims?) but is also a vital safety check - a crucial point not yet covered!
I'm guessing that most existing SYM customers accept the regular servicing and maintenance philosophy.
Globs wrote:Yes the SYM quality is top notch, especially the bigger machines, I'm not convinced the Japanese can realistically compete with SYM, Kymco and Daelim.
It seems to be a scenario where the Japanese manufacturers are now focused on maximizing profits on their popular models whereas the Taiwanese are out to prove they can offer comparable 'quality' - for less...
Re: New Sym??
Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:21 pm
by Globs
anonstarter wrote:I generally do a 11 mile commute - 9 miles of this is on a 70mph dual carriageway - which the Citycom is more than capable of. Homeward bound I have a very short 1 minute ride to that dual carriageway. As you might guess the engine is cold for the first few miles/minutes until it warms up. I do have a nagging doubt that that doesn't do lower capacity engines any long-term favours. I'm wondering if the lower revs of a larger engine might be better?
I have almost the same journey!
Small engines can warm up quicker because there is less to heat, idling while I get the gear on is one way to get it warm, but idling isn't great for an engine either as the cam load is higher.
My method therefore is to use fully synth
0w40 oil which a) flows much better when cold b) has a far higher shear strength (cold parts tend to have bigger 'looser' clearances) and c) be gentle on acceleration and revs until I get the first 'bar' on the gauge. It also depends upon traffic of course, if it is busy with many lorries I just rely on that oil, frankly, and don't overtake anything until I have some heat in the engine
That 0 in the 0w40 is the cold pumpability number, the lower the better for cold morning starts/running as the oil can get around properly. The last number is the SAE viscosity at 100C. You can run 30 grade too BTW, the SYM handbook shows the ranges. 0w30 may well be better in colder weather.
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Fitted my heated grips on the GTS300 today, very useful today!
Re: New Sym??
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:05 am
by Data
Good article globs! I suspect you are right about the Japanese finding it very difficult to compete with Sym, and Kymco too. Especially if the service intervals are coming down in more in line with other bikes.
Re: New Sym??
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:44 pm
by spaceprobe
Data wrote:SYMUK wrote:
Servicing is not only about extending the longevity and reliability (and lower warranty claims?) but is also a vital safety check - a crucial point not yet covered!
Thanks
SYMUK
Yes important point, but taken as a given I think by most on here. Great news though about the increased service intervals that are coming. Can't wait to test the 600i. Counting my pennies now!
Be warned SYMUK Data and I will no doubt be fussy customers
I have to say I dont fully grasp the huge concerns about service intervals. Whilst out today the little light popped on to tell me it was 3000 miles since its last oil change. Arrived home, cup of coffee whilst the engine cooled a little, and then in just about 15 minutes the oil was changed, air filter cleaned and all for just the cost of the oil (simples)
Re: New Sym??
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:06 pm
by gn2
spaceprobe wrote:I have to say I dont fully grasp the huge concerns about service intervals.
Its all about cost and inconvenience.
If you buy a new Sym and want to retain the three year warranty you need to have the thing serviced in accordance with the schedule.
If the schedule says a service every three months then that's twelve services to pay for and a minimum twelve days the thing's off the road for if you use it as your daily transport. (or six months and twelve services)
If the dealer can't fit you in to get the service done on time you're faced with the problem of needing to ride it past when the service is due which can adversely affect the warranty.
If the warranty has expired its far less of a problem.
Re: New Sym??
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:50 pm
by SYMUK
SYM Service Schedule for 250cc upwards - constructive feedback please....
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Re: New Sym??
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:05 pm
by Drago
gn2 wrote:spaceprobe wrote:I have to say I dont fully grasp the huge concerns about service intervals.
Its all about cost and inconvenience.
If you buy a new Sym and want to retain the three year warranty you need to have the thing serviced in accordance with the schedule.
If the schedule says a service every three months then that's twelve services to pay for and a minimum twelve days the thing's off the road for if you use it as your daily transport. (or six months and twelve services)
If the dealer can't fit you in to get the service done on time you're faced with the problem of needing to ride it past when the service is due which can adversely affect the warranty.
If the warranty has expired its far less of a problem.
Well when my SYM was serviced it took 1-2 hours, not a whole day. Labour cost was £35 an hour add consumables.
Re: New Sym??
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:11 pm
by spaceprobe
Well SYM that all looks good to me, will you be following SYM Australia's lead and putting out guidance that servicing should be based on distance not time. In which case I would say those service intervals are very good. I hope you are going to find a nice dealer to give me a good trade in for the 400 and sell me a 600, since you keep putting temptation my way
Re: New Sym??
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:39 pm
by SYMUK
Spaceprobe
Your tenacity is seriously wearing me out!
I want you to have the very first UK MaxSym 600 and I want to have a photoshoot - 'this man wore Mr SYMUK to the ground!' and put you in the press
First MaxSYM - follow this man.....
I ordered them on 5th March in Milan (after a few beers!) What colour do you want? Only ten in first delivery - rest of container are JoyMax
You will receive a Shad 45 Top box and SYM rack and high quality lock/chain foc .....
Get them pennies together!
ps SYM have issued a 3% increase to importer for 2014 - we will hold as long as we can - sea freight being all time low helps!
Thanks
SYMUK
Re: New Sym??
Posted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:42 pm
by gn2
Drago wrote:Well when my SYM was serviced it took 1-2 hours, not a whole day. Labour cost was £35 an hour add consumables.
True the job doesn't take all day, but unless you can drop it off and pick it up during a working day it can mean having to arrange time off work.
When mine goes in for a service its usually ready for collection by lunchtime and its early afternoon by the time I get home, so it takes up most of a day off.
