Piaggio X 10

[anonstarter]

...the idea is to pull the front brakes on gently initially (to compress the forks) and then squeeze harder. Almost all the stopping effect is done by the front brake anyway, so it probably doesn't matter much what you do with the back! If you are braking really hard, the back wheel could leave the ground anyway!

I remember the first day of my Direct Access training, the 'Instructor' asked to see how I stop in an emergency.
According to him it's not about as quickly as possible, it's as "Correctly" as possible.

This braking video always makes me cringe!
[BBvideo 560,340][/BBvideo]

[pikey]

You do what your trainer tells you to do and what tester wants to see not friggin piaggio after past your test do your own way .Ive flicked back thro seen the post both together .Im all left lever on linked braked scoots only use right for extra braking find it easier to get back on throttle and stop start in town also you dont get suspension diving stays flatter .Most of weight is on back on swing engine design scoots plus tyre warms up more quickly front is light and takes a while to warm tyre up

[Bluebottle]

Not utter bollocks at all
It is a drill - creating automatic behaviour (muscle memory or whatever you want to call it) to stop without skidding or washing out on any bike without thinking about it.

[gn2]

Yes it's a drill.
Its a drill which teaches people the wrong way to use the brakes.
That's not just my opinion, it is the teaching of the world's biggest motorcycle safety organisation.
Here's the correct way:

Both brakes should be applied at the same time when stopping. Even though the
full braking potential of each wheel may not be required for normal, planned stops,
it is important to develop the habit of using both brakes so that your reflexes will be
ready to respond quickly and properly when an emergency situation occurs.

Source: http://msf-usa.org/CurriculumMaterials/ ... ok2011.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Page 23 refers

If the bike is upright and going in a straight line and the rear locks what happens?
Try it and see.
If the bike is upright and going in a straight line and the front locks what happens?
Don't try it and see.

The crash in the video which Anonstarter linked to was caused by the instructor failing to teach correct braking technique.
That instructor should be ashamed, not only does he give crap teaching, he goes to the bike first rather than attend to the rider.
The guy is a total disgrace.

[pikey]

His link near end takes you to this for explanation of braking.I think most scooters (except for sporty ones tmax GP800 ect )are slightly different tho as weight distibution is different




[BBvideo 560,340][/BBvideo]

[pikey]

If I remember when I trained for emergency stop I was told was half front then half back then more front

[tallpaul]

Right or wrong, the video made me cringe & gasp aswel , the 'banter' in the comments seemed familiar.

[Bluebottle]

From Police class 1 motorcycle training (highest standard there is, much tougher than civi advanced)
"In normal conditions optimum braking is achieved using both brakes, applying the front brake momentarily before the rear."

This is based on the same research that inspired Honda linked brakes. That is one of the reason only the rear is linked and the front is independent. It's about loading the front and unloading the rear before approaching the point at which traction would be lost. it prevents already being beyond the grip of the rear as it quickly drops which would leave you pulling too much pressure.

Could it possibly be that us poor Brits are more advanced in this than the Americans quoted above?
The reputation of American rider training isn't great, it's google v. Class1

Candidates aren't there to start an argument they are there to pass their test. The info they need is "front brake followed by rear applied progressively" and carry on learning after your test.

[gn2]

It's about loading the front and unloading the rear before approaching the point at which traction would be lost.

It is precisely because of loss of grip that you should not train new riders to use the front brake first.
Both wheels are in contact with the ground, optimum retardation comes from using both brakes together.
To suggest that using one first before the other gives increased braking effect is a complete and utter nonsense.

[poldark]

I think the issue here is the disparity between motorbike and scooter designs.

On a motorbike you have to "momentarily" apply front first to load the tyre and allow suspension compression before fully applying, majority of motorbike rear brakes are very ineffective, just look at amount of disc/pistons on the front compared to weedy rear set-ups. Rear is fundamentally for low speed maneouvring

But scooters are in most cases significantly different and rear brake contributes a far greater proportion of the braking effectiveness, plus front suspension format isn't like a bike, so needs a different approach and "both together" is sensible.