MrGrumpy wrote: I thought they said the quality of the whole scoots was not apparently of usual BMW quality, rather than the engine. I'm beginning to suspect the Kymco bits are its best features!!! Some of the detailed design failures in the BMWs would drive me nuts - the luggage spaces that can't quite hold a (non BMW) full face helmet, the parking brake thats connected to the sidestand......

Yes you're right. The way the article was written it looked like they were saying it was the engine. I reread it and they are referring to whole product. I would say it's built as well as a TMAX, better in some places, worse in others. I have just tired all sorts of helmets under the seat. It will fit any size helmet in the back flip down compartment (large full face HJC) and a medium HJC modular in the front (also tried a medium Shoei Multitec).All these helmets fit without having to bend the seat to get it to close. The large HJC didn't fit in the front as it had a wing at the back, which prevented it fitting in the hole properly.

I do prefer the TMAX parking break arrangement. The sidestand works well enough, but cuts the engine when you put it down.

DougL wrote:Or can someone tell me how to import one?

frankiej1949 imported an X10 500 recently, so he would be able to steer you in the right direction

http://www.maxi-muppets.co.uk/forum/vie ... 32&t=13488" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/vehicle-impor ... orting.asp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

jamie wrote:parking brake on the side stand works a treat on the x10 much better than a separate handle imo

No...don't get it. Presumably when you put your side stand down the engine stops....now I use the parking brake mostly at traffic lights and other stops on hills, to avoid having to hold the brakes on. So the Tmax brake is handy for that - just pull the lever. However, if you have to put the sidestand down, thats awkward, and when the lights go green you have to get the stand up and start the engine....the lights will have turned red again by the time you are ready to roll!.

I guess the brake on sidestand works well if you park up using the sidestand, but I rarely do. I don't trust sidestands and normally use the centrestand, unless ground conditions make this difficult.

MrGrumpy wrote:

jamie wrote:parking brake on the side stand works a treat on the x10 much better than a separate handle imo

No...don't get it. Presumably when you put your side stand down the engine stops....now I use the parking brake mostly at traffic lights and other stops on hills, to avoid having to hold the brakes on. So the Tmax brake is handy for that - just pull the lever. However, if you have to put the sidestand down, thats awkward, and when the lights go green you have to get the stand up and start the engine....the lights will have turned red again by the time you are ready to roll!.

I guess the brake on sidestand works well if you park up using the sidestand, but I rarely do. I don't trust sidestands and normally use the centrestand, unless ground conditions make this difficult.

horses for courses i dont get having to put the hand brake on ,, on a hill when surely its just easier to pull a brake lever ..... i dont see the hardship in holding a brake lever ..... but each to his own .............but to be fair i cant ever remember the need to put the stand down at traffic lights either

Why would you put the stand down at traffic lights ?

no idea ????? cant see how its easier to take your hands off the bars to release a hand brake while doing a hill start either ......... but we all do our own thing

OK, lets put the parking brake thing to rest.

The TMAX (and the Integra for that matter) has a hand brake. This is useful, because if you are on a a slope and have started the engine and haven't yet put on your gloves, you can put the handbrake on. A friend has to use a swipe card to get out of a carpark on a slope and finds this very useful too. It makes no difference on a small scooter, as they are easy to keep from rolling away with your feet. Big scoots try to roll off on you and you need brakes of some kind.

On the BMW and the X10 of course you can put the handbrake on by deploying the sidestand (you don't have to lean the scooter on to it) but when you do so the engine will stop. Sidestands which engage will stop the engine when deployed and have to by law. Having said that it is one of the very few things that annoys me about the BMW. Now that I've thought about it, I might actually deactivate that safety feature, because there is no way the scooter could go anywhere with the parking brake activated.

It's an internet forum mate no insults are being traded we are just putting differing points of views forward . In a polite way ... And further more you have cleared nothing up and put it to bed ..... You have put your point of view across .... Which isn't law or even correct it is your opinion ... I prefer it on the side stand it suits me better..no need for high handed posts as i've said in every post we all do our own thing to suit us.

I wasn't expressing my opinion I was explaining why the majority prefer the handbrake to be hand controlled and giving reasons why you might want to use one rather than just holding on to a brake lever.

The other benefit (for me) of the Tmax type parking brake arrangement is that if you want to stop and fiddle with gloves / earplugs/ other stuff, you can just stop, pull the lever and you can fiddle around entirely hands free without worrying about the scoot going anywhere. Of course, on the BMWs, you CAN the sidestand down buts that marginally more hassle (though as I've said, I'm not a sidestand fan). Personally, I don't like to sit at lights on a hill holding the brakes on (I can see it doesn't worry others!) - its just more relaxed to be able to put the parking brake on, and not have to worry about the scoot going anywhere.