Irev I applaud you for your fantastic appraisal of ABS and two wheels.....

GN2, for the record and I am fairly sure, just this once only, I agree with you!

For years I (as casting vote when ordering new models of SYM at Moore Large - previous importer) held off the introduction of fuel injected models due to the argument of market force - does the reward as percieved by the buying public outweigh the increase in price? Interspersed with this was the underlying question of new systems and initial teething issues - so perhaps best wait until reliability is proven and or end user demand fuel injection!

Same argument applies FOR THE TWO WHEELED MARKET regards ABS, do we wait for mandatory ABS, market force or try to be a market leader and be first to introduce ACROSS THE RANGE?

20 years ago when buying a car, you had choice..... Today you have no choice - all cars have ABS

DO you drive a car? Have you experienced ABS taking control of your braking effort? Has ABS got you out of trouble?

As a member of IAM I am pleased to say that yes ABS has taken control and YES has perhaps avoided a more serious issue - not because I drive like a twat in my 280hp 500nm 155mph (limited) monster - no points on my licence.... BUT doing 50,000 miles a year in all weathers I am exposed to other 'twats' and so ABS really HAS avoided incidents - I WOULD NOT BE WITHOUT IT!!!!

That is not to say that I rely upon ABS - far from it, I drive to within MY capabilities, and as a member of IAM I also read the road - but regardless of the care taken.... Shit happens!

If price was never an issue, I would definately insist upon all SYM models above say 200cc or even all fuel injected models be fitted with ABS as standard.

Thanks
SYMUK

SYMUK wrote:and or end user demand

This end user demands ABS.
I'm not alone on here, there's a few of us in the no ABS = no sale tribe.

A big factor in ordering my next scooter (Piaggio X10) was the ABS as standard.

It's standard in Europe and I don't see why I should be getting anything less than that TBH.
It costs a little more up front but importers don't seem to realise yet that I care less about the money than getting what I want on a scooter. I ride in every day on the GTS300 which has been faultless in damp, slippery conditions because I plan ahead, but it doesn't take much to need a sharp braking on that surface and I'd rather pay up front for ABS than lose more than that from the delay into work, let alone all the other hassle. Especially as quite often I have a pillion on board.

I am all for safety and preserving life but until all the abs systems are at the same level of function and performance I would still like the choice . The aprilia I tried with abs left me with no confidence at all and I was glad to give the keys back ,yet the BMW and honda abs was fine . I will try the sym 600 when I get the chance to see how that stacks up . Irev I agree totally with being smooth making the ride so much more enjoyable ,which in turn makes you brake a lot less .

Being confident and smooth in the wet is one thing, the popularity of diesel is however, another...

Globs wrote:Being confident and smooth in the wet is one thing, the popularity of diesel is however, another...

And therein lies the rub...

As Symuk says it's about the other twats. As Globs says diesel is pretty much everywhere or anywhere. As I say the confidence inspired to test the limits of breaking, backed-up by ABS.

These things make the price of entry argument a non-seqitur in my book.

Now, as Symuk is on try this - your retained margin is bolstered by the marginal extra cost of the BS variant, I assume. Here's where you turn a negative to a positive for the benefit of your dealer - the potential customer whines about the extra cost, dealer has a simple spreadsheet for the cost of the typically-mangled hardware - do not mention the human impact. Instead talk about the benefits and cost-effectiveness of not being off-road and back on the bus while parts are ordered and the machine awaits bench time... sale, with reduced discusison about discount as you've already saved the customer a fortune - and they haven't even crashed yet!

Now this at first glance seems to be a non-benefit to the dealer, but nothing works better in our maxi-market than `subscriber-get-subscriber` and the fact that they lose on the swings still means your dealer gains on the roundabouts as now there will be marginal extra spend to tempt the punter to by new gloves, topbox, clothing - and a good quality lock... and for the punter to bring his best friends mates dad and sell him an ABS scooter.

What ABS does is simple - enable the properly-motivated salesperson to obviate the "Oh! those things are unsafe..." argument. Reinforce with the "What if I gave you an extra weeks holiday a year - and the money to spend it abroad..." argument for a car driver thinking about coming over to the scooter side and that's an assumptive sale, right there...

ABS is about new business, not just new safety...

SYM Joymax 300i ABS Stop/Start UK Launch price is £4399 +otr

Only £100 more than standard version!

SYM UK

Speedo still in kph?

I'd be more interested in service than discount TBH. Buying takes but a moment, living with it and the parts supply is a far longer proposition.

Price chiselling can only go so far, I'm far more interested in the value of the whole package and benefits it brings to my life. Honda's are pretty competitive in price but people still buy them because of their reputation of reliability and customer service. Look at BMW, plagued by electrical problems and always the odd chance of the crownwheel ruining your week but they make a huge effort for customer service. Suzuki work diligently to supply dealers with parts _next day_ which puts them as a very safe but, Yamaha and Kawasaki have a well balanced parts and quality portfolio.

Kawasaki's decision not to include ABS as standard was in my view short sighted.