spaceprobe wrote:Yes Data it does take over but hey it keeps us young. I also like the look of the bigger X10. However I Love the bike like handling of the Sym and the X10 is Italian. I had a new Fiat Punto once, build quality was shite. Gear stick came off in my hand twice and numerous electric problems.

my italian shite is 9 years old, has done 43000 miles, runs better than new.... ha ha i think its like everything else ... it depends on how it is looked after... dont get me wrong i understand regarding italian, not sure if the gilera brand name will fizzle out as it all seems all piaggio now, but if they stuck the new 500 engine in a similar frame/style as the nexus with reworked electrics and fairing and just give it antilock brakes it would be so much fun to ride and could be there sports scooter model

Mike I am sure I read somewhere that the X10 500 had an older engine that had been problematic, you got any info? Think it was the Telegraph review of the X10 that stated the 350 was the far better model. I will be keen to look at the 500 and the 600 Sym.

spaceprobe wrote:Yes Data it does take over but hey it keeps us young. I also like the look of the bigger X10. However I Love the bike like handling of the Sym and the X10 is Italian. I had a new Fiat Punto once, build quality was shite. Gear stick came off in my hand twice and numerous electric problems.

Old beliefs die hard, even when they have long since ceased to have any validity. There was some truth in this once, but not for a long time now.

Except the review in yesterdays Autocar on buying a used Fiat 500 talked about terrible reliability issues!

I remember the problems the old Piaggio 460cc Master engine had. The were related to the cold start auto choke mechanism that overfueled the engine after a cold start. The choke in effect was sticking on for too long and some of the excess unburned petrol was finding it's way into the oil. This not only diluted the oil but, as petrol is a solvent, it started to melt the plastic oil pump drive gears and this in turn resulted in oil pump failure. It affected only a few of the engines but when a few wrecked engines turn up it gives the engine a bad name. It was in fact a very good strong engine and the problem was easily fixed. The new Master engine is a bigger 492cc unit as I understand it, and there are no such problems with fueling or oil pump failures. This engine has been out for over a couple of years now and is proving bullet proof so I don't think there are any worries....errr...to be worried about!

spaceprobe wrote:Except the review in yesterdays Autocar on buying a used Fiat 500 talked about terrible reliability issues!

and yet there are 90 owner reviews on autotrader and it get 4.6 out of 5 overall

Data wrote:I remember the problems the old Piaggio 460cc Master engine had. The were related to the cold auto choke mechanism that overfueled the engine after a cold start. The choke in effect was sticking on for too long and some of the excess unburned petrol was finding it's way into the oil. This not only diluted the oil but, as petrol is a solvent, it started to melt the oil pump drive gears and this in turn resulted in oil pump failure. It affected only a few of the engines but when a few wrecked engines turn up it gives the engine a bad name. It was in fact a very good strong engine and the problem was easily fixed. The new Master engine is a bigger 492cc unit as I understand it, and there are no such problems with fueling or oil pump failures. This engine has been out for over a couple of years now and is proving bullet proof so I don't think there are any worries....errr...to be worried about!

In fact you could make a case that the newer designed 350 engine is more of a gamble as it's not yet proven.

Thankfully it doesn't look like there's been any issues so far, but really still too early to be certain.

not sure as i dont know much about the new 492cc engine but i am sure its a single cylinder with two spark plugs, if i am correct

The X10 350 is almost as fast as the 500 anyway I have heard, so for less weight and fuel I'd be going for the 350.
I'll certainly be checking it over VERY carefully at Motorcycle Live this week when I visit.

But I won't be looking at the new SYM GTS300 at all because no one could be bothered to exhibit it. Because of that demonstrable lack of commitment to the brand I am steering more toward a firm that actually seems to want to sell their stuff to me.

Yup, even 'Stahlkoffer Panniers Ltd' and 'Watsonian Squire' have stands there but did SYM enter a single bike or scooter?

Still, I've only bought two top range SYMs brand new so I guess I'm not their target customer...

Yeah I agree if SYM want to promote there machines they need to use every oppertunity. I'm very keen on the new Joymax 300, although not to keen on the name, sounds like something for the misses!! Should have kept the GTS name. That aside with the hopefully change in the service schedule and the choice of ABS coming I am really keen, as I like my current 300i GTS, but with the lack of a local dealer, as they are now Kymco dealers, and with the seeming lack of interest from MotoGB with the dodgy website and no interest in showing the bikes, it doesn't inspire confidence in the brand. So will be having a look at the new Kawasaki when it arrives, and will look again at the Forza, as well as the X10. Hopefully SYMUK will reasure us the SYM and MotoGB do want to sell us there machines, and show willing!