Bluebottle wrote:Yes it is feasible and it exists. It is called regenerative braking.
The motors soak up the forward motion and dump it into the battery as electricity
(A motor is the same as a generator, you can put elec. in motion out or motion in elec. out.)

I read that, alternators have a rectifier unit and are also artificially limited to 14 Volts. can this not be changed for higher Currents and Voltages to supply power to electric motors directly.. think im thinking out aloud

I agree GN2 that people do what they want not what is good or what is best for them

My point is, where is the support for this statement:

irev wrote:As a `green` alternative they don't (make sense)

If my electric can cover the distance I require, with massively fewer emissions and less environmental impact than petrol or diesel then it is a greener alternative.

Irev has stated that he is a an environmental specialist and government advisor working for a leading company in the field.
This presents a great opportunity.

Not what will sell best, not do this or fuck off, just -
How is my electric less green than diesel or petrol?

It really doesn't matter which is greenest or not at all green, thats really a non-argument because.....
Fossil fuels are a finite resource which will cease to exist at some time in the future.
If we are to continue to enjoy having our own personal vehicles then alternative on-board energy storage is essential.
Or its public transport for everyone.....

Greener means making those finite resources will last longer.
It doesn't only refer to environment and emissions

Very good point... if the electricity for the vehicles is produced in a way which reduces fossil fuel usage.

Nice one

Have a look at this:
You need electric to make petrol
The amount of electric used to make a litre of fuel will send my bike more than 20 miles.
They both use the same amount of electric to cover 20 miles

Except the petrol engine also burns a litre of fuel on top of the electric it uses

If they get their electric from the same place - Why burn the fuel?


( I can give you the maths in KW/h if you want it)

The numbers I'm interested in are the cost per mile to the user.
This thread has motivated me to watch the film "Charge" which has been in my Netflix list for months.
I hadn't watched it because I have mixed feelings about road racing in general and the IoM TT in particular.
Anyhoo, it certainly looks like here is no reason why an electric scoot capable of meeting my commuting requirements cannot be built quite easily using existing componentry.

Less than a penny a mile on mine including replacing the batteries at 3/4 of there life expectancy.
It's easy to work out, your leccy bill has the unit price on it
(Or generate your own juice )


There isn't really a service interval, just keep an eye on brakes/tires/bulbs/bearings.

Some things to watch out for:
Some manufacturers quote absolute range (until the bike creaks to a halt)
others quote useable mileage (until the performance starts to drop off or it will no longer hit a certain speed)
That makes it tricky to compare

Battery chemistry makes a big difference.
Lithium batteries are lighter and more powerful but expensive and don't last (and less green)
Silicon batteries are heavier and less powerful but cheaper and last longer. They also stand up to abuse better and are sourced/recycled in a friendlier way.

I would always go for something with excess range
I needed to do 20 miles so I went for a 40 mile range. That way I knew I could make a detour, or I could unplug it Nd nip to the shops without worrying. I could also still get to work in the morning and charge up there if there was a power cut or something. Sometimes i'd get home and have to straight back out again so that extra juice came in handy.

They use intelligent chargers. They manage each cell for you and switch off

"Charge time = 6 hrs" or whatever is a bit misleading. Usually you are only topping up. Most of the time mine took 1-2 hrs - and that is on very outdated tech.

Regenerative braking extends your range, definately worth having - and it gives you a free reverse gear

There isn't much to go wrong - the most complex bit is the controller (a pcb, chip and regulator in a heat sink box). Easy and cheap to replace

so Bluebottle would you say that this scooter http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZEV-5100-Elec ... 2ed11eb5c9" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; would suffice rather than paying a grand more for the lithium version http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZEV-5100-LITH ... 2ed14a8550" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

the guy selling these has just copied and pasted to both listings,
plus points on lithium i guess is lighter, quicker charging, and supposedly more charge cycles
is it fair to say the gel batteries around 300 re charge cycle... my two sons have leccys i've stripped and fettled with a 24v and a 36 volt version.. i have no garage or adequate means to charge near house , so it was a no-go for me, yet the above is what i would have gone for, as the vectrix although way ahead of its time had issues with charge components and cooling fans etc

I don't know anything about that model, sorry

But-
I'm fairly sure that ZEV used to use (still do?) Greensaver Silicon batteries and I have used those.
They arent the same as gel batteries used in petrol scoots
They are really good for recycling as there is no acid
The ones I had worked well beyond there published life and were reliable. I once had one of their chargers malfunction after about a year but the dealer replaced it for free.
The charger is important because silicon batteries really don't like being overcharged. Other than that they need less management than Li.

There was never any hint of memory problems or anything like that and they held there charge while the bike was stood

ZEV did some interesting things with oversize/multiple stators, they don't seem to be just pushing whatever they find off the shelf from China.

For me it came down to lithium being an ecological nightmare

Website for Greensaver batteries

You'd be better off talking to somebody on the EV sites that knows more about ZEV bikes. I don't know enough about them.