Piaggio out Burger the Burgman.

[gn2]

Theres no way the 330cc engine in such a big scoot will have the grunt of an engine of 400cc.

That's yet to be established in real world tests, but on paper it looks like it's far closer than some folks appear to believe.

[Data]

Theres no way the 330cc engine in such a big scoot will have the grunt of an engine of 400cc.

That's yet to be established in real world tests, but on paper it looks like it's far closer than some folks appear to believe.

Thanks for the info gn2. On paper it doesn't look that close actually. Bhp and torque are quite high up the scale compared to the bigger 400's which makes a huge difference. However, I hadn't seen the brochure for the specs on the X10, just haven't had time to look. Nice spec on it though, the 500 would be the one for me if it ever comes into the country! The spec on the Maxsym400 is good with 35hp and near 34nm of torque. But it doesn't give the revs for either of those figures. I would suggest they will be close to the Burgman 400 revs and much lower down the rpm scale than the Piaggio's output. My Burgman is 33.3hp (34ps) at 7300rpm, relatively low revs, but 36.3nm of torque at 5800rpm, again quite low revs. I'd rather have the higher torque at lower revs for good acceleration in normal riding. But they are all good figures and it makes for easy cruising and lugging of heavy loads, and light work of accelerating up steep hills with a passenger. The Piaggio will be more peaky and will need to rev hard to keep up I suspect which will hit it's fuel consumption if ridden like that. But otherwise look nice.

Barry, I went to the NEC just a few days ago and I was two up going there for a distance of 178 miles. Riding solo when I came back, another 180 miles, total for the day 358 miles. We are big blokes and had loads of gear with us. The underseat was packed with equipment. The bike purred along nicely at 70-75mph indicated without a hitch and it was easy going. At no time did I feel the bike needed more power. It romped up the hills almost as if they weren't there, and getting up to speed on the ramps to join the motorways was no problem. Plenty of power to spare. And remember, I'm the one who has been brought up on GSX1400's and a range of 1000cc bikes. If I'm happy, I'm sure you will be too when you go touring. Now I know the Piaggio 330cc engined bike would do all that too, but I just know it would need it's neck wringing to do so and it aint going to do the engine any favours is it! But if you go that bit slower, I would think it would be fine. Incidentally my fuel economy for the whole day of 358 miles was 75.9 mpg which for high speeds and two up for half of it is pretty good in my book.

Thanks again gn2, if/when you get a test on the Piaggio, please do write it up here.

[gn2]

Blu tack something over the rev counter so you can't see it and it absolutely doesn't matter at all what revs you're doing.
I drive automatic vehicles for a living and never look at the revcounter, it's an irrelevance.
As for fuel consumption comparisons between two engines, higher revs in one need not mean it has higher fuel consumption.

[Data]

gn2 that's a whole new subject, so I'm not going there. I'm currently benching a new engine ready for pre production tooling. Higher revs nearly always equals lower mpg in our tests, but there are too many factors to talk about here just now as it depends in what context we are talking about it, and the type of engines involved. Maybe another thread on the subject would be good.

[StephenC]

I have not seen mention of the weight in this thread. And as I believe that acceleration is a function of torque versus weight assisted by gearing, it is quite important, I think.

The X10 350 is 196kgs (and the X10 500 224kgs). The Maxsym 400 is 219kgs. Cyberscooter give the Maxsym outputs as 25 kw a 7000 giri and 35,7 Nm a 5500 giri. The X10 350 gives its best of 24.5kw at 8250 and 32.3Nm 6250.

So even with a bit more torque and at lower revs (and we haven't seen the shape of either's torque curves as well), the Maxsym still has to cover a weight difference of around 12%. That's a lot of ground for the 400 to make up with outputs of 2% more power and 10% more peak torque.

I reckon there won't be anything between them on the road.

[barryG]

OK, we need a Maxsym 400, Burger 400 and an X10....... and a racetrack

Those max torques on the X10 at over 8000rpm isnt great. At 8000rpm my Burger is doing around 80mph!

[StephenC]

OK, we need a Maxsym 400, Burger 400 and an X10....... and a racetrack

Those max torques on the X10 at over 8000rpm isnt great. At 8000rpm my Burger is doing around 80mph!

At those revs my Sat250 is indicating just shy of 80 with another 1500rpm to go. Real speed at 8000rpm is more like 73mph.

I do wish bike manufacturers would start realising that lower revs are better for scooters. Well, I suppose Honda has started with the 700, but I want a torquey small block, please.

[Deleted User 796]

OK, we need a Maxsym 400, Burger 400 and an X10....... and a racetrack

Those max torques on the X10 at over 8000rpm isnt great. At 8000rpm my Burger is doing around 80mph!

And your Xevo would be doing 80mph at 6000rpm (mine does and with a pillion too!)

[barryG]

It sure did

[gn2]

I have not seen mention of the weight in this thread. And as I believe that acceleration is a function of torque versus weight assisted by gearing, it is quite important, I think.

Aerodynamic drag also plays a part.