Tmax vs BMW comparison

[MrGrumpy]

First direct comparison (in French).

http://www.scooter-station.com/BMW-C-60 ... X-530.html

Result? very little difference! BMW goes faster, TMax handles better! I love the photos of them together - its hard to tell which is which!

[poldark]

Maybe I'm just getting too old and grouchy, but I look at the mpg figures and cringe.

I'm guessing the journos as per usual weren't hanging around, so perhaps these'll be +10-15% in "real world" use, but we're talking BMW - 43.2 & TMax - 44.4.

I'm far more interested in a NC700X DCT with real world 80mpg, better handling, I'm suspecting as quick, albeit poorer storage and less weather protection but several thousand pounds less, and I'm sure far cheaper servicing. Well I am until I can't get my leg over any more (!), but by then I'd probably forego the sportier maxis for a Piaggio X10 350 and still get 80mpg.

But I guess I can't be the target market and there'll be existing BMW owners who'll have one as a second machine, or younger peeps with enough dosh to want to spend this sort of money.

[johnp]

For me it would be either the Yamaha or Honda buy watching the video.

[MrGrumpy]

Maybe I'm just getting too old and grouchy, but I look at the mpg figures and cringe.

I'm guessing the journos as per usual weren't hanging around, so perhaps these'll be +10-15% in "real world" use, but we're talking BMW - 43.2 & TMax - 44.4.

I'm far more interested in a NC700X DCT with real world 80mpg, better handling, I'm suspecting as quick, albeit poorer storage and less weather protection but several thousand pounds less, and I'm sure far cheaper servicing. Well I am until I can't get my leg over any more (!), but by then I'd probably forego the sportier maxis for a Piaggio X10 350 and still get 80mpg.

Yes... I guess they were pressing on a bit! They were doing performance tests and flat out top speed & acceleration tests so I guess the figures aren't indicative of real riding . I guess the interesting bit is that the BMW is so close to the TMax despite being a lot heavier and having a bigger more powerful engine.
Ride are doing a series of economy tests and putting a range of bikes round a set route with a single rider. They got 63 out of the TMax which is surprisingly good (I rarely get more than 55, though I ride a bit like a journalist). They got 75 out of the N700X on the same test. I've seen figures of anywhere between 52 (mad thrash) and 95 mpg (extreme economy run) in mags from the N700X.

Fuel economy isn't everything. Its not just poorer weather protection with the 700X, there is effectively none at all. Maybe cheaper servcing - who knows? - but there's a chain to mess around with. Probably slightly quicker, but as for handling, I don't think we really know how the N700/Integra compares to the Tmax yet

[poldark]

Well I've not ridden a TMax so can't compare directly, but I have ridden an NC700X demo and it's nimble at low speed and has true "motorbike" handling with C-ABS and full-size wheels - although the NC700S is quicker steering and more nimble.

The screen can be effective especially with Givi option, there are extra wind deflectors for feet and legs, so although it'll never fully match a Maxi it is not completely lacking. I've been following a UK forum and know that real users get 75-85 mpg without trouble and 100mpg on bimbles is regularly reported.

The service interval is 8k miles and although I appreciate chain messing isn't appealing it is realistically a once a week 5 minute job or you buy an auto-oiler. All this and "built in Japan" Honda quality for £6700 puts the £10k pricing for TMax &C600 into real perspective for me. The DCT is going to do what flappy-paddles have done for sports cars, although it'll take some while (hell freezes over?) for diehards to accept the flexibility of auto/manual no clutch riding.

I know this is a Maxi Forum and banging on about the NC700 may be considered poor form, but this is in effect a scooter in bike form and I'm already convinced that it will be considered a game-changer for the bike market when people look back in 10 years time.

They're reported to be selling in reasonable volumes, Skidmarx are building add-on options because of the amount of interest they've had & a London courier firm has recently ordered 30.

It'll be interesting if the other big manufacturers leave it to Honda to invest and lead the way, or if they'll develop in the same direction. My old TDM900 has many similarities and always sold well in Europe but had little interest in UK, maybe fuel pricing is eventually going to make UK riders (and journos) eventually wake up to more practical bikes/scoots.

[MrGrumpy]

Interesting. I know that Mags do seem to appreciate the handling of the 700X

I'll have to look into the 700X wind deflectors, to see how effective they might be.

Made in Japan quality of the Honda? The TMax is also made in Japan, and quality has always been good.

Yes...the TDM - I quite liked it, and I know people who loved theirs, but I was always put off by the same things that put me off the N700 - lack of weather protection and chain.

Yes - yet another discussion that turns into a discussion of the 700X!!!!! This one started as BMW vs Tmax comparison!! Its certainly got everyone thinking. As I've said before, they should put the Integra fairing on a 700X (with DCT) then they'd really have something work considering!!!!

[poldark]

Yes - yet another discussion that turns into a discussion of the 700X!!!!! This one started as BMW vs Tmax comparison!! Its certainly got everyone thinking. As I've said before, they should put the Integra fairing on a 700X (with DCT) then they'd really have something work considering!!!!

Hey you should work for Honda you've cracked it, that'd really make it very appealing.

The Integra is a real disappointment given it's (daft and unjustifiable) higher pricing with poorer (no) storage. It is a real shame that for the convenience of FF and decent fairing you pay/lose so much.

[MrGrumpy]

Yes - yet another discussion that turns into a discussion of the 700X!!!!! This one started as BMW vs Tmax comparison!! Its certainly got everyone thinking. As I've said before, they should put the Integra fairing on a 700X (with DCT) then they'd really have something work considering!!!!

Hey you should work for Honda you've cracked it, that'd really make it very appealing.

The Integra is a real disappointment given it's (daft and unjustifiable) higher pricing with poorer (no) storage. It is a real shame that for the convenience of FF and decent fairing you pay/lose so much.

It should be bleedin' obvious to Honda...use all their existing bits in different combinations to appeal to everyone. You'd end up with a really useful commuter/light weight tourer, and an obvious Deauville replacement (still stuck with the chain though). There again, with the warped thought process that Honda must have gone on to arrive at the Integra, maybe it isn't obvious...

[MrGrumpy]

It should be bleedin' obvious to Honda...use all their existing bits in different combinations to appeal to everyone. You'd end up with a really useful commuter/light weight tourer, and an obvious Deauville replacement (still stuck with the chain though). There again, with the warped thought process that Honda must have gone on to arrive at the Integra, maybe it isn't obvious...

Thinking again, Honda may not be the brightest sparks on the planet - its bleedin' obvious to all of us that an S-wing with the SH300 engine would be a wonderful scoot, but its apparently not obvious to Honda....

[gn2]

Wonder how long it will take for an aftermarket belt drive conversion to appear for the Honda NC700 range?

T-Max, BMW TGS comparison?
Nothing in it, both share the same problems: overpriced and completely irrelevant.