Faster than fossil

[gn2]

Tired of spending minutes filling the petrol tank?
Solution: http://www.wired.com/2015/01/gogoro-battery-swapping/
Six seconds is faster than any forecourt petrol pump.
Looks uber cool too.
I want a 40 mile @ 80mph version and a battery swap station beside my work.
Ah well, dream on

[johnp]

No thanks as electric is not the way forward. Hydrogen is what we should be looking at

[kayz1]

Can you store it thou!

[Bluebottle]

No thanks as electric is not the way forward. Hydrogen is what we should be looking at

Why is that Mr P?

Whenever I've come across Hydrogen cells they have only been producing about 3 HP and the real power has come from the battery.
The cells were more or less trickle charging the battery.

They seem hugely problematic and expensive to produce as mainstream bikes.

[gn2]

The current VanHool A330 Hydrogen bus has a 120kw fuel cell stack, the traction motors are 2x85kw so peak power comes from the traction batteries.
It has regen braking.
Linky.pdf
It can run 18 hours / 230miles (ish) on a tankful of gas and refuel from empty takes six minutes.
Very expensive to buy just now but cost of manufacture will fall dramatically as more are built.
These buses are perfect for congested cities, two reasons, the exhaust is pure water and you are not restricted by infrastructure in the same way as an electric tram or trolleybus.
Road blocked = service suspended for electric but a diversion and continued service is possible for hydrogen.
So yes, I reckon hydrogen could be the way forward.

[Bluebottle]

They seem hugely problematic and expensive to produce as mainstream bikes.

Bikes

Trams get stuck because they are trams, not because they are electric.
Buses can carry large bulky objects (gas, cell stacks)

Manufacturing costs would drop but the raw materials wouldn't. Platinum isn't going to get cheaper. As I understand it, a bike needs £1000 of platinum - and that is only one of the noble metals required in the catalyst. Plus you still need the battery and motor from the electric bike.

Manufacturing of the vehicle itself isn't going to change significantly for the Scottish bus if they are already using a production vehicle as a base, only the conversion cost.

I'm not against hydrogen I just don't see how it is going to work.

The hydrogen burgman is supposed to be on its way but as far as I know Suzuki would not allow reviewers to ride fast roads or over long distances.

Could that be because the fuel cell can't charge the battery as fast as it is being depleted?

[bikerdezzie]

Graphene is the new wonder material which is super strong but also fantastic as a conductor of electricity and storage related abilities i read stuff virtually weekly of new uses they are using it for on science sites, go have a read up on it as well as next gen super capacitors, all very interesting stuff.

[Bluebottle]

If super capacitors deliver - electrics will become dominant I agree.

[Bluebottle]

I'm not sure that hydrogen will provide unlimited range either.

People keep saying that once it is available in fuel stations everybody can just refuel and keep going - same as petrol.

Lets say we do a lot of stop/start acceleration or hills or whatever and deplete the battery and hydrogen-
So we go and fill up and go on our merry way.

Well no, we don't
The cell on the proposed bikes produce around 3 HP when there is no demand from the battery and peripherals. Joining traffic with under 3 HP is going to be problematic (if the bike can function)
The battery will have to be charged

I suspect those Scottish buses are plugged on overnight and that hydrogen bikes will have to do the same.

If we get home and the battery isn't full, does the H cell charge it overnight?
Will there be any gas left in the morning?
Will we still need to plug in every night?

[StephenC]

http://www.gogoro.com/#/faster

I like this. Better if it were maxi sized and around 10 or 15mph higher maximum speed, but still. I like the concept. Let's see if they do one a bit bigger and then I could seriously consider it.