BMW C600 reliability problems

[DougL]

I suppose that's the crux of the issue. I rarely ride the BMW in town, but use it for high speed stuff, where it excelled. I absolutely loved the way it kept up with almost everything on the twisty stuff in the French mountains this summer. My TMAX Mk3 was better in town though. A word about the BMW clutch. It is dry and so prone to judder, a fact not helped by the engine firing sequence which is offset. The clutch engages late, ie higher in the rev range. It does not judder if you give it full throttle, although that can be a bit risky if traction might be a problem. The interesting thing is, that you can modulate the clutch engagement, almost like a manual clutch by altering the throttle opening slightly. This allows you to trickle the beast along without juddering at relatively slow speeds, whilst slipping the clutch! It's a somewhat weird sensation, but useful.

[SkuTorr]

Dougl:

I wasn't comparing a STOCK Mk3 Tmax, but one where I had changed the pads to HH sintered (which the C600Sport comes with stock) and had put in 16.5gm Dr. Pulley sliders, which made a HUGE difference off the line and overtaking, as it puts the rpm's at the torque PEAK when you punch it...which the BMW was engineered to do stock, same as the Tmax mk4.

The C600Sport would be a BIG improvement/upgrade over a stock mk3 Tmax, which is why many have made the jump to BMW.

Or, spend about $200 to upgrade the Tmax. $200. And keep a wet clutch...

[DougL]

Mine had 15g Dr Pulleys. The BMW still feels faster... Don't forget I have owned both of these scoots long-term and have gone across Europe on both, I even owned them both for about a month prior to selling the TMAX, so they were often ridden back-to-back. The BMW excels on the touring front (in fact with a top box I think it has even more space than a GT with the Flexcase, which is a real wow factor - the GT luggage space is slightly awkward) and beats the TMAX hands down. If you need to do lots of urban stuff then the TMAX has it. I tend not to ride in town if I can help it, preferring to use my pushbike (middle-aged and trying to stay fit).

[Tmaximus]

Hi Guys, Tmaximus here that started this topic, just one final update from me. I have returned my C600 Sport to the dealer and got a full refund, - good dealer that behaved properly, so they have not lost me as a customer, - I also have a new R1200GS/LC and an HP2 Sport supplied by them. Yesterday I was advised that there is a final push in the UK where you can now get a BMW scoot for £100 / month, then from 2014 the scoot will effectively be discontinued in the UK and only available to special order. Very sad. If they had updated the scoot to a sensible final drive design, and dealt with the cam chain & primary drive issues then I may have bought another. However yesterday I did a deal on a 530 Tmax, but rear wheel removal on this looks like a nightmare compared to the C600 - you cant win them all !!

[Taipan]

All in all a very interesting thread. Thanks to the owners of the models concerned for their contributions.

[anonstarter]

All in all a very interesting thread. Thanks to the owners of the models concerned for their contributions.

Ditto!

Yesterday I was advised that there is a final push in the UK where you can now get a BMW scoot for £100 / month, then from 2014 the scoot will effectively be discontinued in the UK and only available to special order.

£100 per month? I'm guessing that's with a >£5000 deposit or trade in!

[MrGrumpy]

However yesterday I did a deal on a 530 Tmax, but rear wheel removal on this looks like a nightmare compared to the C600 - you cant win them all !!

Congrats on the Tmax. I will be finding out how complex changing a tyre is on the 530 quite soon. I would have preferred that Yamaha retained the old system.

[OpenMind]

What a fascinating thread, and somewhat dismaying, to say the least. I've really enjoyed the rides I've had on both the BMW maxiscoots, some of them several hundred miles long. I'm astonished that no-one has mentioned the Kymco 700, since it's engine is so similar to the BMW powerplant which is also made by the Taiwanese company although, interestingly, the Kymco drive is on the opposite side. It features in this Stateside 'uber scooter shootout' video, but is not rated as highly as the BMW or the Burger. The most astonishing thing about the US situation from a European perspective is how dirt cheap the BMW is compared to its European price. The yanks criticise the Burger for being expensive when in Europe the BMW is at least £1500 more expensive than the Suzuki! (And they are all as cheap as chips compared to the European prices!)
See here:
tp://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/2013-uber ... tout-video" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also, it *is* possible to adjust the C600Sport screen on the move, although probably not recommended by the Elf'n'Safety Executive) and, as Mr Grumpy said, the easy-with-gloves-on adjustment system is a damn sight better than the poxy allen-key-required system on the Mk4 Tmax (although some adjustment is better than none, as unavailable on the Mk1,2, & 3!).
And talking of adjustment, it's absolutely unforgivable IMHO that Yamaha have been through 4 versions of Tmax without ever providing any rear suspension adjustment!
I could really have done with some last week while thrashing around Thruxton in company with serious sports bikes at an excellent IAM event.

[SkuTorr]

Mine had 15g Dr Pulleys. The BMW still feels faster... Don't forget I have owned both of these scoots long-term and have gone across Europe on both, I even owned them both for about a month prior to selling the TMAX, so they were often ridden back-to-back.

My brother and I actually rode a C600 and then a C650 and my Tmax at the same time, next to each other. The Tmax killed them both off the line and accelerating at medium road speeds; at 80mph+ on the freeway the C600 finally would creep ahead of the Tmax. Up to almost 90 on the freeway, the Tmax just walked away from the C650...much heavier and not nearly as aerodynamic as the GIVI AirFlo-equipped Tmax.

Through the familiar twisty canyon roads behind my house the Tmax braked harder into and pulled harder out of the corners and was much more nimble than either BMW. I think the "faster feeling" is more a function of the Tmax's smoothness...it just doesn't work hard or make much noise doing anything. There is much more input/effort expended in making the BMWs get around corners, as if you are going "faster", but you are not.

Then, there's my brother's Tmax 530, on stock Bridgestones, no less. Yesterday I was following him through those same twisties and he scraped his SIDE STAND on a lefty, and the 530 has much more clearance than the 500. He wasn't even trying to go "fast", was just riding quickly. He looked like he was on a TRACK going around that corner . It really is that intuitive and refined.

[SkuTorr]

I'm astonished that no-one has mentioned the Kymco 700, since it's engine is so similar to the BMW powerplant which is also made by the Taiwanese company although, interestingly, the Kymco drive is on the opposite side. It features in this Stateside 'uber scooter shootout' video, but is not rated as highly as the BMW or the Burger.

The KYMCO MYROAD 700 is a completely different engine than the BMW...nothing in common at ALL! It's a full 699cc, is an almost 10 year-old design with an externally-mounted dry clutch, which does two things:

1) it make the MYTOAD very WIDE and
2) avoids all the clutch overheating/glazing problems that the INTERNAL dry clutch scoots have, I.E Gilera 800, Aprilia 850, BMW C600,650 and Silverwing 400/600.

KYMCO designed and built the 700 engine themselves. BMW designed the C600/650 engines, assigned it to KYMCO to oversee the CHINESE MANUFACTURE of the entire scooter range by LONCHIN, who subs-out to "who-the-hell-knows" subcontractors.

And therin lie all the Reliability/Quality-Control shortcomings. As an article posted in the BMW scooter Forum stated:

"The car division felt that they were making the profits for the company yet these profits were being squandered on the motorcycles that weren’t ‘earning their keep’. The car division staff had ideas of how to make the motorcycle division ‘profitable’. Now how could that be done, you might ask? Simple… cut back on build costs and quality control expenses, out-source production to foreign countries ( China , Czech Republic , etc.) where costs would be less than producing the part in Germany and reduce the time and expense of research and development i.e., thoroughly testing the product before it is released for sale to the general public."