They're dangerous!

[Waldorf]

I took my bike test when I was 60 and newly retired. It improved my car driving 100%.
I would like to see every learner driver take the CBT to help them be more aware of 2 wheeled road users.

Same here except I was 50.
I bought a 50cc NRG when I took early retirement in order to save a bit of cash - my Mitsubishi L200 was a bit thirsty - and took the CBT although I didn't have to so as to brush up on 2-wheel skills.
I had to sit the Theory and Hazard Perception tests to get my bike licence but that was a good thing.
I am firmly convinced that all Driving Licence holders should have to take an annual Highway Code Test like the Theory Test. It would be easy to organise as an on-line test.
I have talked to friends about this; the usual objection raised is that people can cheat by having a copy of the HC open beside them and look up the answers.
My reply is that it doesn't matter because, at least, they will have read a few bits of it again.
In 2013, I did a Speed Awareness Course. It was a good day and drew attention to things I had more-or-less forgotten.
Since I've been on Scooter Forums, occasions have arisen over certain matters - Filtering, for example - which have prompted me to look up the definitive answers; it's so easy as the HC is a click or two away on the Internet.
Am I a Highway Code anorak? Possibly, but it passes the time.

[Ministerofsillywalks]

But with all the points made by myself and others I still don't have a convincing argument to put to my brother and other members of the 'Motorbikes are dangerous' brigade.

You don't have to argue anything.

Your life, your choice.

You have the right to say, "I am not going to discuss this." Then simply don't.

I think I will go with this. I have come to the conclusion that I will never convince people who think they know better. Even though the first thing they are likely to say is 'Oh, you don't want to discuss it because you don't have an argument.' It's all part of living in a country where powered 2-wheelers are regarded the way they are. Think I'll move to Italy!

[knight2]

There is the argument that most of us on here have been riding a large variety of bikes for a very long time and we're all stil here riding. There must be a very good reason for that and non riders will never know what it is. Ttheir loss.

[Ministerofsillywalks]

They base their 'Motorbikes are dangerous' thing on riders who are killed because they ride like idiots. As has come up repeatedly in this discussion if you ride sensibly then you have a really good chance of surviving. Like most of us on this forum, who for the most part are past the age where we ride stupidly. And if we wanted to ride fast then we wouldn't have scooters! Then there is the thing about 2-wheelers not having crumple zones and airbags. True enough, but it is mitigated by good sensible riding. Along with making sure we are seen. As has also come up in this discussion the standard of riding by good riders is way ahead of the standard of driving of the average car driver. They can drive badly because they have crumple zones and airbags. If our riding was like their driving there would be a hell of a lot more deaths and serious injuries.

[Ministerofsillywalks]

Oh yes, just remembered. My boss in my first job after leaving school told me that when he was 17 he had a bike. As can be expected his parents were all 'Motorbikes are dangerous! Get a car! Get a car!' The usual thing. One day he was out on his bike when he saw a gap between two cars that was closing. So what does he do? Hang back? No, he accelerates and tries to beat the gap before it closes. The inevitable crash. So he goes to his Dad and says 'Look Dad. I've been thinking about what you said and you're right. I'm giving up riding and getting a car.' Being a naive 17 year-old I couldn't think of anything to say, but if it happened now I would say something like 'Here's a suggestion. Rather than giving up riding how about just giving up accelerating towards gaps you can see are closing.' Idiot - riding like a total moron then blaming the bike. This sort of incident is what a lot of people base their views on.

[SpikeOne]

I remember TRAUTS from many years ago, a senior and much loved member of this forum.
Noone dressed more visibly than him, and very few of us drove with the care and consideration that he did either.
He still got taken out by a lorry on a roundabout though, and killed instantly.
It is far more dangerous than a car, but that's part of the attraction, along with the feeling of freedom that it gives us, but we recognise this and most of try to mitigate the risks, as did Stuart.
It is, genuinely, just luck that keeps us vertical and above ground and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Spike

[Ministerofsillywalks]

I remember TRAUTS from many years ago, a senior and much loved member of this forum.
Noone dressed more visibly than him, and very few of us drove with the care and consideration that he did either.
He still got taken out by a lorry on a roundabout though, and killed instantly.
It is far more dangerous than a car, but that's part of the attraction, along with the feeling of freedom that it gives us, but we recognise this and most of try to mitigate the risks, as did Stuart.
It is, genuinely, just luck that keeps us vertical and above ground and I wouldn't have it any other way.
Spike

Wearing hi-vis and being seen isn't a cure-all, it just helps. Since I have been wearing a hi-vis vest I haven't had a single driver pull out on me.

I wouldn't call it dangerous, just less safe than a car. As you say you mitigate the risks. And hope for the best. Riding is so enjoyable it's worth a bit of risk. If we were all obsessed with safety we would all be driving round in tanks!

[capitano]

Even though the first thing they are likely to say is 'Oh, you don't want to discuss it because you don't have an argument.'

If they say that, you are dealing with narcissists, not people with a genuine concern for you.

All the more reason to shut it down and refuse to discuss it.