Data wrote:Grumpy, I think that's an overstatement to say it's virtually the same. There's not a panel on the bike that is the same appparently. It looks much more like an overgrown 400 now too. Electrically and mechanically, there are quite a few changes although the main engine components are very much the same but have been refined somewhat in some area's. Some changes are not very obvious though. But hope the price is not hiked up.

Well, the fundamentals - engine, gearbox, transmission, suspension haven't changed at all, and whilst the panels have changed, its pretty indistinguishable from the old model, especially from the front. I know that Suzuki are good at doing lots of minor upgrades which aren't visible - for instance if the clutch has been redesigned to that you can push it around at rest without damaging your back, that has to be an advantage! But new panels and a new dash don't make an upgrade IMHO. I really can't see why they bothered restyling it (slightly) but then leave so much unchanged...

MrGrumpy wrote:...I really can't see why they bothered restyling it (slightly) but then leave so much unchanged...

Because it's cheaper than r&d!

After all the base design is only 12~ years old so not due for a major update for, oh another 20 years?

irev wrote:Parsimonious times, but with ten years or more of comment, observation, recommendation, criticism and the arrival of the BMW 650GT and to a lesser extent the SRV850 and the MyRoad 700i) THIS is the best they can do..?

Woeful.

The only hope is there's a new 400 for EICMA and that's where the budget's been spent...

Sorry. I disagree about the woeful bit. Why would they want to change, too much, the most successful large scooter ever? There wasn't that much wrong with it. It needed slimming down a bit, the new one is supposedly lighter with under the canopy revised braking, transmission driveline, engine mapping and injection etc etc etc. It is considerably more economical from what we read. It's been restyled in a more modern way and it's very noticeable if you know your Burgmans. Remember, it's a bit of a subjective thing as to whether you like one or not! And from the indepth analytical side, the Burgman 650 was already the best, or very near, and I see little from the competition as yet that comes close to de-throning it. Time will tell of course. The Myroad 700i is not even coming to the UK and is not sold widely in europe. The overpriced BMW although good leaves many people cold due to that price and many questions about quality and reliability, just like many of their other bikes these days. I speak from experience of the BMW brand, worked on many over the years as a tech. Quality and the letters BMW don't really go too well hand in hand. But let's hope that has changed. I'm not anti BMW, just anti poor quality being charged out at premium prices. At least with Suzuki, you know what you are getting and it's pretty good! The Suzuki Burgman 650 has always been remarkable good and has few faults. It's been continually improved over the years little by little which any good manufacturer will do. For the price it's reputation is unbeatable in my book. But as with all these bigger scoots, you do need deep pockets if you don't do your own work.

OK, so if you think a 650 twin that gives 65mpg and weighs well over 270 kilos is Good News, I guess you're a glass half full kinda guy. I thought we'd established the only change to the driveline is the new clutch. And after 10 years they'd better be fitting revised digital fuel injection, if only to meet current emission regs.

ON the other hand, when you consider just how revolutionary the innovation was that gave us the 650 in the first place, you might think that the opportunity has, in fact,been pissed up the wall...

I've a sneaking suspicion they'll bump up the price now too. After all the competition (i.e. the c650gt ) is more expensive and doesn't have the established branding (in the scooter world).

In a world of manufacturers like apple coming up with a phone every march with a bit of tweaks but looking almost the same as the previous version if you have millions of people buying into their product, what do you expect?

Noone can deny suzuki's success with the maxi scooters in their range. Why should they bother creating something else when they can get away easily with a bit of tweaking on the fairing and instruments?

Personally i didn't like the new model and i bet it will be 8-9k when it goes for sale as per the tradition.

On another point, i'd love to see them do something really crazy with the 400 and spend all they saved from the R&D of 650 model. Something that will rock the maxi scene.

Data wrote:
Sorry. I disagree about the woeful bit. Why would they want to change, too much, the most successful large scooter ever?

No....sorry, not with you there. Sucessful? Sales wise, they seem to sold a worthwhile number in the States, especially to begin with, but in the bigger European markets, it didn't shift great numbers - the Tmax probably outsold it 10 to 1. In technical terms, Yes, it was a decent design, and worked OK but had its problems. OK I'm biased as a I'm a TMax fanatic, but it needed work - the suspension is suspect, the weight is grotesque and I didn't find comfort was as goodas some people found it. With 40 less kg, it would probably be much more fun, and its performance would be a revelation.

Anyway...to return to your original question, Why would they change it? Answer: BMW C650GT which according to most journos pees all over the (current) Burger. Or if you don't fancy paying £10K plus for a BMW (and live in Europe), you buy a cheaper but seemingly similar (and almost as heavy!) Kymco MyRoad.

They don't seem to realise that there are many more competitors out there nowadays in the maxi scooter segment than when they first came out with their products. It's a bit like prius/tesla now and, say 10-15 years from now. There will be many other electric car manufacturers including sporty models and if they don't reinvent their products then, they'll just be out classed.

halfabusa wrote:They don't seem to realise that there are many more competitors out there nowadays in the maxi scooter segment than when they first came out with their products. if they don't reinvent their products then, they'll just be out classed.

ie the Honda Silverwing!

I don't know why people compare the Burgman 650 with bikes like the T-max. They are designed to capture a different market and of course are quite different bikes. As for the sales the Burgman has made, world wide it is the most successful big scooter of IT'S TYPE EVER, period! Other makes and sizes of scooter will have outsold it, of course. But it's a large speciality scooter in a class that didn't exist when it was introduced. From what we know so far, it still stacks up pretty well to the new competition if you read what some journos are saying about the new mob on the block, especially when you consider the price which I am assured by Suzuki will be the same as the outgoing model subject to £ to Yen exchange rate of course and any other inflationary pressures next spring when it comes in. The journos are of course basing their conclusions on the old Burgman 650, and not the new one which is undoubtedly better in many areas. That's usually why you get a new model to make improvements, but how good is it? We honestly can't tell yet can we! It does have new injection and timing maps to take advantage of the reduced friction from the driveline, slightly reduced weight and altered gearing and to meet new eu emmissions just around the corner. Ultimately, we won't know for sure how good or indeed bad it is until we see some road tests and ride it for ourselves. Whether you like the bike or not is in part subjective, we all have our likes and dislike but the 650 Burgman is dead in the water according to some on here and it's not even out yet for anyone to have a proper look at let alone ride! Since the Kymco is not coming in to the country, I will definitely be taking one out for a spin. But my 400 stays even if I like and buy the 650!