If you look at this page
http://www.piaggiospares.co.uk/genuinep ... rols?uid=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

number 12 says brake pump, and it/they are the master cylinders

I would buy different master cylinders and have done with it.
Lyn.

Isn't there a non-abs X-10 on the continent?
What would be involved in removing the ABS, maybe that could be a cheaper option?

But surely removing an abs system is going backwards

Yes, but some might prefer no ABS to expensive maintenance bills.

Removing the ABS from a Bev or X10 that has it, is out of the question. Even if it were possible, it would require extensive mods to the whole braking/traction control system and void the warranty. Probably very costly too if you had to pay to do it. More importantly than mere money, ABS is a vital safety feature that for me, and I'm sure most buyers, and is one of the very reasons we bought them, in addition to them being outstanding scooters in a host of other ways.

In any case I don't see that the requirement for replacing the brake pumps/master cylinders is that expensive. The very first posting in this thread refers to it costing around £200 total in 10,000m. Not that bad is it over that mileage? I understand that for extremely high users who do much more than that per year it may be too much, but my guess is that these riders are in a very small minority.

For extreme high mileage riders, to compare the X10 or Bev with other scooters on running costs you can't just look at one item. Many other factors have to be considered such as insurance, fuel consumption, tyre mileage, total servicing costs etc. Only then can you see which is cheapest. And anyway, running costs is just one factor in a purchase decision. There are loads of others such as comfort, ABS, storage space, looks, handling, power, presence of a good dealer and so on.

For most riders who do only modest mileages the whole brake pump thing is probably of little concern in the overall decision of whether to buy a Bev/X10. There are far more important features to consider when comparing these scooters with other makes and models.

abitmad wrote:Removing the ABS from a Bev or X10 that has it, is out of the question. Even if it were possible, it would require extensive mods to the whole braking/traction control system and void the warranty. Probably very costly too if you had to pay to do it. More importantly than mere money, ABS is a vital safety feature that for me, and I'm sure most buyers, and is one of the very reasons we bought them, in addition to them being outstanding scooters in a host of other ways.

In any case I don't see that the requirement for replacing the brake pumps/master cylinders is that expensive. The very first posting in this thread refers to it costing around £200 total in 10,000m. Not that bad is it over that mileage? I understand that for extremely high users who do much more than that per year it may be too much, but my guess is that these riders are in a very small minority.

For most riders who do only modest mileages the whole brake pump thing is probably of little concern in the overall decision of whether to buy a Bev/X10. There are far more important features to consider when comparing these scooters with other makes and models.

I kind of agree with you...if you do a high mileage, you are going to spend a fortune on 'normal' servicing, tyres at up to £100 each every time, drive belts, brake pads, brake disks etc etc, so thats an expensive business. But no other makers insists you replace master cylinders - ever - so you wonder whats going on. With my Bev, I'm trying to be philosophical.... I don't do a huge mileage on it (3000 miles a year or so), so I'll only probably replace them once, and I previously sunk £500 in a futile attempt to cure the baby Burgman's various ills (plus £200 on a new exhaust) which was money entirely down the drain..

Agreed.

For me the point is Piaggio fitting unfit for purpose components, irrespective of whether they cover themselves by adding it to the schedule. What is reasonable?

As you say no other manufacturer considers MCs service items, and if they also confirm it's necessary if the ABS has operated then even more so for me.

I agree it is strange, I've never seen the requirement to regularly replace master cylinders before and I have owned a large range of motorcycles and scooters in my life, mostly motorcycles. But I just don't think this is important enough to be a deal breaker for most owners or prospective owners of the Bev/X10. They are just such good scooters.

makes you wonder when some poor sod buys it second or third hand in afew years .. totally unaware of this are they likely to suffer total brake failure at some point

Only one question needs tobe asked and that is WHY do they need tobe changed,
if it is a safety thing then why at that mileage if abs has been activated,,whats the
big deal..

And the abs can be removed , i did it with my 1150gs cos the abs
unit went duff ( as most of them did ) and it was no big deal to do.