tmax vs burgman 400 debate

[halfabusa]

Although i'm not planning to change my tmax for a while yet, dreaming is free so i've been thinking of what i would buy next and considered the idea of a burgman 400. So i would like some opinions on the pros and cons of such a possibility of switching.

The reasons i considered a burgman 400 are:
- Budget - not planning to go beyond 3k-3,5k when i make the switch, and for that money a 2009-2010 burgman 400 is possible.
- Fuel economy - reports of 60-65mpg on the burgman makes me jealous
- storage - tmax with top box is capable enough but i prefer to not feel the need for a top box all the time.
- speed - sufficient enough as even with the tmax i don't feel safe going above 90.
- age - tmax is 2003, i can switch to a 2010 bike with not much extra to pay on top
- commuting - this is the main reason of having a bike for me, as i'm not looking for that extra degree of cornering angle in twisties every weekend. So usability wins over sporting style for me.


So what are other alternatives?
- Burgman 650 - had one already and i don't like buying same bike twice
- tmax mkII - strong possibility, then again, costs and fuel economy will be same as now
- silverwing - like to try one but scared of costs again - is it really much more expensive to maintain compared to a burgman 400? How's fuel economy?
- mp3 - heard reliability issues with it
- gp800 - would love the speed but not much else on it
- nexus - reliability?
- Xevo - lots of praise in the forum, however i don't really like the shape. Got to want a bike to own it right?
- sym/kymco - Doubt i can find one within budget. I don't want to go below 400cc either.
- satelis - scared of reliability issues, don't know much about the bike. how's the maintenance? fuel economy?

Unknowns
- I don't know how burgman compares against tmax in terms of maintenance costs and service bills. What are the periodic services like and how much do they cost? I assume they would be cheaper for the burgman but it's just my guess. Tyres are smaller too as far as i know, so should be cheaper i guess?
- How would single cylinder 400 differ from two cylinder 500? Does it lose it's comfort?
- What's the build quality like on the burgman? My own experience with burgman 650 vs tmax mk1 rates the tmax above the burgman but i don't know how a K9 or a newer (L0 ?) burgman 400 compares against a Mk1 tmax...


Let your opinions flow... I need your inputs on this.

[MrGrumpy]

I've never heard of the Silverwing having particularly expensive maintenance bills. As we've said recently, some people get decent fuel economy figs, other get terrible ones! Not an expert on Peugeot - but if its a Piaggio Master engine in it, they give good fuel economy.

I think the crucial question is how many miles you do. If you do a lot, then fuel consumption and service costs are important, if you don't do many, its really irrelevant!! I only do around 3000 miles a year in my car, so I could afford to run a Bentley on that mileage! Of course, riding style makes a difference as well.

My finding with the TMax (when I used to a lot of miles) was that it wasn't the servicing cost itself that was the problem cost wise...each service takes 2 hours or so of labour + parts every 6000 miles - though Yamaha spares parts are outrageous - I paid £60 in air filters alone last time!!! It was the consumables that totted up the cost - Vbelt £100 every 12K, 2 radial tyres (£160 + fitting) every 6K at best, new front brake pads every 6K. To an extent these costs are unavoidable, though things obviously last different lengths of time on different scoots.

Maybe you can ask dealers for the scheduled service labour hours required over 24000 miles or something - this might give you a handle on costs.

[mottza]

One of the last X9 500s?

[barryG]

Youll get an easy 70mpg from a Burgman 400, build seems better on the Tmax for sure but the Burgman 400 is pretty damn good in all honesty.

[poldark]

Well if it's likely to be next year, we'll know more about performance and early reliability indications for either of the two bikes with the next gennration Piaggio 350cc engine - Beverly SportTouring & X10

Been watching the video Ged posted earlier and musing myself over the Beverly today.

You're talking 33bhp (same as Xevo 400) but with with 20kg weight reduction, 16" front wheel, half decent underseat storage a 6k mile oil change & 12k miles belt change. I'd hope for 80mph motorway cruise capability matched with 80mpg economy if being more sedate - I could get 80mpg from the X8 400 and it's supposed to be better, so chances are high.

Just a matter of having confidence in new Italian technology, that's why I'd wait till next year and hopefully look at a lightly used 2ndhand one, but even new they're under £4.5k.

[barryG]

I wouldnt worry about the new technology, Ive bought new Italian stuff with new tech on and had no problems. Only thing with the Bev is its restricted foot and legroom and hardly any weather protection, I just couldnt get on with the 300 version at all.

Also, dont think the lightness will make much difference... Ive ridden an X8 250 back to back with a GTS 250 and the X8 was much quicker... aerodynamics have a huge part to play. On the Bev, your body is getting all that wind and it slows it up... the 300 I tried wouldnt get to 80mph and struggled after 60mph.

[poldark]

Well they've changed the panels (apparently), added a small screen and the only independent report I found online said 93mph indicated (87 GPS) from a new demo unit.

But you're right about the size, which is why I'm holding out until local dealer has the X10 too, then want to test-ride both side-by-side.

[MrGrumpy]

Youll get an easy 70mpg from a Burgman 400, build seems better on the Tmax for sure but the Burgman 400 is pretty damn good in all honesty.

Apparently the 2012 model has been updated more than you might think, with a twin cam engine which seems gruntier, twin front disk brakes, 1" bigger front wheel, different front screen.

[Waldorf]

then want to test-ride both side-by-side.

One foot on each saddle and reins to the handlebars?

Can I be Ring-Master, please?

[halfabusa]

I think the crucial question is how many miles you do. If you do a lot, then fuel consumption and service costs are important, if you don't do many, its really irrelevant!! I only do around 3000 miles a year in my car, so I could afford to run a Bentley on that mileage! Of course, riding style makes a difference as well.

My finding with the TMax (when I used to a lot of miles) was that it wasn't the servicing cost itself that was the problem cost wise...each service takes 2 hours or so of labour + parts every 6000 miles - though Yamaha spares parts are outrageous - I paid £60 in air filters alone last time!!! It was the consumables that totted up the cost - Vbelt £100 every 12K, 2 radial tyres (£160 + fitting) every 6K at best, new front brake pads every 6K. To an extent these costs are unavoidable, though things obviously last different lengths of time on different scoots.

Maybe you can ask dealers for the scheduled service labour hours required over 24000 miles or something - this might give you a handle on costs.

I do about 6000 miles annually on the scoot, mostly london traffic. I change the oil/filter/etc myself but never tried brakes yet. I'm thinking of giving it a go next time around and see if i can make it a DIY item as well. I'm thinking that since most of my usage is commuting, spending less on stuff like filters/tyres that change quite often will add up to quite a lot in the end.

One of the last X9 500s?

I love the shape but scared of those computers that are prone to faults everytime it rains... Is there a way of buying an x9 with those issues sorted?

Well if it's likely to be next year, we'll know more about performance and early reliability indications for either of the two bikes with the next gennration Piaggio 350cc engine - Beverly SportTouring & X10

I don't like the scoots without feet forward design so beverly is out but x10 is a very beautiful contender indeed. Not sure how much its used price would be in a year's time but if around 3k i would think about getting one for sure.

I won't be changing mine anytime soon, so most likely to be next year or so.