what makes scooters so heavy?

[halfabusa]

The weight disadvantage of scooters, especially maxis is discussed on almost all topics when a new scooter is announced. We keep on complaining them being too heavy and wishing the manufacturers reduced the weight and how much better it would have been...

We have a lot of people here who know quite much about engineering, vehicles and manufacturing so i wanted to put this question out to you all. I wonder why the scooters are at disadvantage compared to other types of bikes in general.

Is it because the fairings are much more? Is it the belt drive weighing heavier than chain driven engines? Is it the engine design itself?

If you were talking to an R&D or marketing person to advice them about improvements that could be done, what would you say?

[Funkycowie]

Comparing the Nexus 500 vs the Tmax MK3 there are obvious savings in weight for the TMax but it ends up wider and with a twin engine and just as heavy, its like the manufacturers set a threshold weight for the scoots and try to get close to it.

[irev]

Primarily? Absence of care.

Unlike spurtbikes, where the next iteration can never be heavier than the previous or else squander the precious extra horsepower for the fat, slow old bastards able to afford them, maxis are simply not designed with weight saving in mind.

The perfect example of this is the Honda Integra - 238kg. NC700X (with the tank storage bigger than the underseat space of the so-called scooter) 218 kilos. Exactly the same frame and engine, wheels and drivetrain. Just the hugely badly designed and unaerodynamic fairing. Honda understand how to build light, yet they choose not to... yet they are happy for us all to buy into the totally bogus notion that `racing improves the breed` yet the subframe-less seat unit and self-supporting fairing isn't used to lighten even their scooters.

[gn2]

The easiest way to reduce a maxi-scooter's kerb weight is to lay off the pies.

[anonstarter]

The easiest way to reduce a maxi-scooter's kerb weight is to lay off the pies.

C'mon gn2, admit it - you're truly, madly, deeply into Pieism

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Pieism

[Bluebottle]

Surely weight gets added because of a straightforward engineering problem:
A bke has structural frame members running from the seat base to the headstock (bars). these triangulate the frame and make it rigid.

On a scooter the triangle is open on one side because the top members are missing, that is a weaker shape so the 2 existing sides get beefed up to acheive the rigidity. The extra metal makes the whole thing heavier.

[wozza]

I've often wondered myself why modern scooter are so heavy. I know there's a whole hos of extras these days such as CATs and all the wizz bang electronics, but the original Honda Spacy 250 is onlt around 118-120kgs and yet some modern 250s are getting on for 180-190kgs.. SYM seen particular heavy.

[anonstarter]

SYM seen particular heavy.

Are you saying my Scoot's fat?

There's gotta be an element of trust when looking at 'stated' weights...

I was the first to think 'feck me' doesn't seem to weigh that much!

I ran out of petrol on a Fazer 600 - faulty fuel gauge, honest, now that fecker seemed heavy when pushing it to the petrol station ½ a mile down the road!

[halfabusa]

Surely weight gets added because of a straightforward engineering problem:
A bke has structural frame members running from the seat base to the headstock (bars). these triangulate the frame and make it rigid.

On a scooter the triangle is open on one side because the top members are missing, that is a weaker shape so the 2 existing sides get beefed up to acheive the rigidity. The extra metal makes the whole thing heavier.

So if the seat region of the frame was narrower, it would have weighed much less. Such a shame, as with the technology being where it is, i doubt it's rocket science to design a frame that would be more rigid, therefore requiring less amount of beefing up.

As Irev said, the fairings could be improved with lighter components used in the manufacturing but the end price would then take a big hit as we already have a TGS in the market and i dread to think how much a rigid framed scooter with carbon fibre fairings would cost... 15 grand?? Now that would open up a hell of a topic here.

[wozza]

SYM seen particular heavy.

Are you saying my Scoot's fat?

Now would I....... I love SYMs fantastic bikes.....just a tiny bit overweight.....only a tiny bit mind..